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Additions to the lore department.

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Solus

object oriented
Staff member
Admin
Retired Owner
I don't think you'd have ever been satisfied with anything I'd have said or done. So.. "Ok".
 

Centurion

Dark Council Elite
I'm sorry?
My opinion of you has changed, but there's a difference between being thrown into the position out of necessity and demoting dee from staff to replace him with someone previously outwardly completely uninvolved with lore. Have you answered the question of "Why does events not need lore oversight but lore needs events oversight" yet?
 

Rygan

Deathblade
Evil
Rygan_Deathblade
Rygan_Deathblade
Evil
Come on man, at the very least don't just be an asshole to be an asshole.
Okay, I'll dissect why it was an awful answer.
I've given Dee a position where he can actually focus on what he wants to do for Lore and this server instead of focusing his attention to other things and other people.
Deester is clearly in agreement with you based on how angry he appears to be.
The only one lacking a dedicated magus is Formistry that I gave you reign over to find. You're waiting to spark people by personal choice, but I'll assume things will pick up after it. Our magi are busy. Ones an event coordinator who's students have been inactive in Anima, ones internet is troubled with Cogi but will return and there's another who can teach there, and another is busy with college but has a Master aid who I'm assuming is going to eventually teach more than just one person who're waiting on Evis. Pacing is here and there, obviously. But if it's going slow, we'll step in to talk to the Magi players. Our intention is still here to make sure the skills are balanced to their specific schools.
Lannis went inactive in regards to teaching before his students did, in like July. Wrong order. Being an event coordinator shouldn't matter because we haven't had an event in two months.

K9 is completely fair. In regards to me (the Master 'aid'), we both know why I didn't meet the month plan I eagerly had set.
  • We're reigning in what gaps there are properly and record things that will and have occurred.
  • Divine plan is still ongoing. Everyone's noticed they're somewhat back, but not in the way they used to be. They are subtle and approach things in the background of server happenings at this time. The pacing is also extended because of actual life and school being in the way, but it's being picked back up.
The gaps shouldn't have existed in the first place. It's great they're being 'reigned in' but it's either pure incompetence or nepotism that they were allowed to exist to such a degree that Dee's gotten frustrated enough to harm his position in lore. The answer on the Gods says nothing of what the 'plan' is what it could even entail - it's barely an answer to the question asked. The rest of the thread doesn't even get a mention. Why are events so chronically inactive? Why were they allowed to work beyond lore? Is 'lore' just whatever you say's fine to launch? Snerus asked a good question. All of these answers are non-answers that avoid the problems.

While we're at it, why is spawn so beyond schedule? All we hear are promises for resolutions that haven't come. Go back a year ago and you can probably find the two of us having the same exact argument over the exact same things.

I don't think you'd have ever been satisfied with anything I'd have said or done. So.. "Ok".
If I'd thought you did good I would have said so.
 

Solus

object oriented
Staff member
Admin
Retired Owner
The rest of the thread doesn't even get a mention. Why are events so chronically inactive? Why were they allowed to work beyond lore? Is 'lore' just whatever you say's fine to launch? Snerus asked a good question. All of these answers are non-answers that avoid the problems.
I'll address it when I have some time.
 

Elt

Lord of Altera
Retired Staff
Ones an event coordinator who's students have been inactive in Anima,
Listen I totally get being busy but citing 'student inactivity' when students have expressed on numerous occasions that they're available is ridiculous.

Planning things takes time, sure, but you can't just dismiss it like, "nobody's going to care anyway."
 

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
Almost two years ago, when folks were drafting a new magic system, I remarked one of the reasons I wanted to rework things was because of a complication that came when our event lead became the lead of Mysticism.

If they focused on Mysticism, people became upset about events.
If they focused on events, they could not work on Mysticism.

This seems to be happening now, nothing that they're doing is pleasing people and I can't imagine they enjoy coming on to the game.

This ultimately started upsetting people all around and led to some unpleasantness, and was one of the reasons I considered the magus system a failure.

And I'm not sure what to say. I told you guys, vociferously, you didn't listen to me, and you copied the part of the system I considered the biggest failure.

*Shrug*

Addendum 1:

Anybody willing to admit I was right now?
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
Almost two years ago, when folks were drafting a new magic system, I remarked one of the reasons I wanted to rework things was because of a complication that came when our event lead became the lead of Mysticism.

If they focused on Mysticism, people became upset about events.
If they focused on events, they could not work on Mysticism.

This seems to be happening now, nothing that they're doing is pleasing people and I can't imagine they enjoy coming on to the game.

This ultimately started upsetting people all around and led to some unpleasantness, and was one of the reasons I considered the magus system a failure.

And I'm not sure what to say. I told you guys, vociferously, you didn't listen to me, and you copied the part of the system I considered the biggest failure.

*Shrug*

Addendum 1:

Anybody willing to admit I was right now?
I think the issue that was not learned from (and yes you were right in this extent) is that the positions for the Magi were or are not piloted by active players.

The fact that there is an accusation of events and magi going hand in hand would be similar if there currently was a campaign going on; instead both seem to be lacking, so it's either worse, or there is a completely different problem.

Otherwise, I will defend the current system because there were protocols put in place to create mages without need for a magi. That was put in the hands of the event & lore department heads too however, and have likely been completely dropped in my absence.
 

Lannis

You've yeed your last haw
Staff member
Admin
Events Staff
In-Game Tech Staff
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Server Owner
Shadow Owner
With regards to events- yeah, sorry boys, I'm not very consistent with either scheduling or finishing things up. Ain't gonna make excuses for it, but I've recently done something I should have a while ago and gathered an actual team, with the hope that we can mitigate my shortcomings in activity to keep things running.
With regards to events and lore- I've fucked up a bit in this regard too, but the foundation for events should go through lore regardless of who's running them, and by and large this is how it goes. Snerus' question is the most verbose pertaining to this, so I'll try to answer it.

Something I'd always wondered was why Deester's personal Campaign Events had to be pre-approved by Events.

I was under the assumption that, as he was on the lore team at the time of conducting the event that he'd be allowed to run it as a non-server campaign event, and continue with the campaign as his personal project, rather than needing approval of the Events Team (which I was not a part of at the time).

On the flip, having spoken with Deester during a time where I was under the impression he was still a full functioning member of the lore department, I was surprised to learn he was unaware of certain Events Team initiatives that I was assured was approved by the entirety of the Lore Department.

I will avoid specifics, of course, but I feel strongly that this question deserves to be answered for the forums at large.
-Dee's events needed lore approval, not events approval. While I'd be happy to offer advice on events, if it's lore approved I'm not going to stop people from running them.
-I spoke to you a bit in private on the details of the events team thing. Without going into specifics here, it is correct to say that I messed up and that we should've gone through lore before starting specific projects. The events team initiative was operating within an approved premise, but given the opportunity we absolutely should have gone through lore for the specifics that were used.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
I shifted you to an advisory and aid position. You know why, we talked about it and agreed to it. We were trying to work things out but I needed to move on in the time I have right now. I could not leave things as they were because you chose to step out by choice already. @All who are asking about it- Dee's got a good heart and he's a good part of Lore, but a coordinator of Lore needs to be a coordinator of Lore. I've given Dee a position where he can actually focus on what he wants to do for Lore and this server instead of focusing his attention to other things and other people.
We're going to talk about this today since I don't want misinformation spreading further.

The options I was given were resigning from lore as a program or taking this lowered job. I refuse to let the already poor coordination of lore that happened without my supervision happen further, which is why I took on this position. I still care, even if you want to jerk me around.

Now onto the most thoroughly wrong part of the response, bolded in the quote.

I was trying to coordinate lore, and was actually doing a job of it; what hampered me is I was not coordinator, nor given the recognition of a trainee that Archbishop was given immediately upon my demotion. I was treated as the lowest part of the council in the meantime, wherein my attempts at balance were overridden because you felt I was being harsh by considering the other members of the playerbase that would have to interact with lore items in question. I was rebuked, mocked, and had people fully decline working with me while you commended no respect in turn; however you seem to be giving that spotlight immediately to Archbishop, I say once more.

A coordinator has things to coordinate, but I recall being unable to successfully even suggest actions of anyone in the council but myself, which is why I ended up with so many jobs in lore. If you try and even remotely deny this you'll be railroaded with every example that comes to mind. Don't call it fair.
 

Solus

object oriented
Staff member
Admin
Retired Owner
You were given those options because you left our chat in a rage over a misunderstanding after apologies were given and still expected to continue working Lore as you did while I was going to be away for more than a week. This was after an event that you held without full lore approval. I can accept learning from mistakes and apologies and redemption, and I accepted your mistake and was working towards fixing problems you raised, but the way you handled things, and getting rant after rant in my chats, was unacceptable for someone I'd like to trust in a coordinator position.

You accepted the circumstances that are inevitably now. We're still willing to work with you in Lore.
 

Rygan

Deathblade
Evil
Rygan_Deathblade
Rygan_Deathblade
Evil
You were given those options because you left our chat in a rage over a misunderstanding after apologies were given and still expected to continue working Lore as you did while I was going to be away for more than a week.
This server seems to be ran by misunderstandings.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
You were given those options because you left our chat in a rage over a misunderstanding after apologies were given and still expected to continue working Lore as you did while I was going to be away for more than a week. This was after an event that you held without full lore approval. I can accept learning from mistakes and apologies and redemption, and I accepted your mistake and was working towards fixing problems you raised, but the way you handled things, and getting rant after rant in my chats, was unacceptable for someone I'd like to trust in a coordinator position.

You accepted the circumstances that are inevitably now. We're still willing to work with you in Lore.
There were subsequently two events held without lore approval and while I neutered mine to nothing by request when you asked, you fully allowed the others to go forward. Your example is further evidence of the double standard and impedes you further since I gave you the details of my event and both of you didn't read it.

I was left out of even knowing of the unapproved events and items and only found out after hearing from players. You 'accepted' my mistake after a lecture that was not given to Events despite it happening after mine, showing no accountability for them. I left because it was a growing trend already and I realized Lore Council had no need for a "Skype Chat", saying you could contact me on forums or privately on the same platform. Instead I was demoted. You're not willing to work with me, you're willing to have me do all of the same work as before but now be out of the loop further.

Since I told you it would be coming and you still tried to avert with excuses, lore decisions I was left in the dark of are as follows:
  • Incandescence specifically, there was no request about balancing or review, nor acknowledgement it existed aside from saying you would "give an artifact to Maceo" without elaborating further, even upon request to elaborate. There were no records of it anywhere beforehand.
  • The "Shadow Rider", which was given bullthrough because "the event team was excited".
  • The drop of divine boons in the first place was kept from me, lest we forget. Not only are they vastly unbalanced, some are nonsensical and ask more questions in intent than they answer.
  • I am still in the dark on what the demons from the first dropped chain did, as well as where they went.
  • Current plans for the Gods, since you had asked for a goal and reached one without informing lore.
  • Animancy was left from me until I requested to see it after all of it's ridiculous, nonsensical changes. I was rebuked afterward.
  • Cogimency is in turn still in a limbo I was unaware of, since there are two Magi using spells unapproved by lore that don't fit with the discipline.
  • The 'Heart' doesn't make any sense in specific, because you didn't consult me.
I'm not going to go on about these unless you try and pull more poor excuses. I left 'in a rage' because I was kept from doing my job, and now you've damned yourself to bias if Archbishop is given the treatment the position deserves, or hypocrisy if you change nothing.
 

LiraKitty

Lord of Altera
While I am sure many of us are incredibly grateful to finally see answers to questions that have been asked a thousand times over. I do not think this is exactly how we had expected to get said answers. Might I suggest that this conversation be taken to a more private forum? It is not good for the community to watch the ones we are supposed to look to for answers tear each other down in such a public manner.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
While I am sure many of us are incredibly grateful to finally see answers to questions that have been asked a thousand times over. I do not think this is exactly how we had expected to get said answers. Might I suggest that this conversation be taken to a more private forum? It is not good for the community to watch the ones we are supposed to look to for answers tear each other down in such a public manner.
This began in private until a misleading public post was made, it's now public because it was made public. Your answers wouldn't have been delivered otherwise.
 

Elt

Lord of Altera
Retired Staff
While I am sure many of us are incredibly grateful to finally see answers to questions that have been asked a thousand times over. I do not think this is exactly how we had expected to get said answers. Might I suggest that this conversation be taken to a more private forum? It is not good for the community to watch the ones we are supposed to look to for answers tear each other down in such a public manner.
I think that's a terrible suggestion, personally. The community should be informed if the staff's doing well or shafting themselves, if there are issues that affect the community as a whole. What good's a hugbox if it's burning?
 

Cap

Lord of Altera
Legend
Might I suggest that this conversation be taken to a more private forum? It is not good for the community to watch the ones we are supposed to look to for answers tear each other down in such a public manner.
It's absolutely good for the community because it's best that the server is aware of how maturely or immaturely staff handle conflicts such as these. The fight happens either way and when it happens in a public setting it allows the community to formulate their own opinions on the content presented rather than parrot what little is revealed to them by staff after it's resolved privately.
 

Mitch

Daydreamer
Good
HoboVigilante
HoboVigilante
Good
While I am sure many of us are incredibly grateful to finally see answers to questions that have been asked a thousand times over. I do not think this is exactly how we had expected to get said answers. Might I suggest that this conversation be taken to a more private forum? It is not good for the community to watch the ones we are supposed to look to for answers tear each other down in such a public manner.
This is exactly one of our problems, and has been for as long as I can remember. Whenever there's conflict or discourse on the server the ultimate solution is to hide behind closed doors and pretend everything is fine, usually with threads meant to "spread happiness and positive vibes!" Nothing will ever change if it's not actually addressed.
 

dogbew

Lord of Altera
While I am sure many of us are incredibly grateful to finally see answers to questions that have been asked a thousand times over. I do not think this is exactly how we had expected to get said answers. Might I suggest that this conversation be taken to a more private forum? It is not good for the community to watch the ones we are supposed to look to for answers tear each other down in such a public manner.
I was having this conversation with some friends of mine the other day, we had the same problem on another community and it reminded me of here. All taking conversation to a private medium does is make it seem like there are no issues to the general public, when there clearly are. The real way to solve your problems is to actually have an open and honest conversation about it. If Staff are interested in solving this issue, perhaps they should actually solve the things that are complained about? Conversations like this have popped up every month or so here for years now, all with the same basic complaints that are only appeased and not addressed.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
Oh wow I didn't even notice you blew all the mystique of the god into a Warriors of Sunlight riff.
There was also a Priest of Ignis that used "Solarbeam" on a demon in an event vein that was never followed up. The priest has not shown up since.
 
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