A point on wearing plate armor

[DraconDarknight]

Still,Needle bodkins are effective on mail, and even if an arrow doesn't penetrate the armor, it's going to leave a deformation and hurt. I doubt getting shot in the head with an arrow is going to feel good. It might even knock you out and you drown faster.

You may not know, but a warhorse kick can kill a fully plated knight of struck in the head. So I figure an arrow won't feel to good either

It won't feel good but won't leave more than a scratch either. Also a kick from a horse to your head and an arrow are two very different things.


They even tested a Long Bow against a Japanese Longbow on ballistics gel, neither made it really through a metal plate. It should be noted at this point that the English longbow lost by 2 or 3 inches in the ballistics gel test.
And they were used because of the slight , and really slight, chance that someone actually manages to hit get an arrow through the visor. Also not everyone in a battle wore full plate armor, only Knights did that.

The bows that were used against crusaders weren't that strong.

But not everyone has a english 160 pound draw weight warbow that they have trained all their life to use.
The point was to kill people without armour and cause panic, people rarely died in combat anyways, it only got bloody when one side started routing and getting killed on the retreat.
The danger wasn't single arrows, but the sheer volume and terror of the volleys.

The problem was also the horse that wasn't designed to tkae that kind of punishment, unlike their rider. After Azincourt barding started spreading and was improved (Hence the boom of the power of the heavy cavalry around this time period) . Against sustained longbow volleys (and unable to charge from the rain and stakes), the horses were just targets, and armored knights are hopelessly slow on foot.

Which is why the armored the horses too later on, they weren't that slow though.

-----
The most well known of incidents of plate armor getting obliterated (?by non-plate troops?) was when the French hired Italian mercenaries(battle of Vernuil).At first it looked like the English were loosing badly against that plate armor, but their commander(Bedford I think) took all of them told them 'You are all dead now fight for your honor because that all that matters now' and led a melee charge against them using weapons specialized in defeating plate armor, which John of Bedford was specialized
in.
The battle ended with the rest of the Italian mercenaries returning from their pillaging just to see their entire company dead.
Afterwards the English child-king(Henri VI) was crowned King of France.
Said King was also the only one who ever got crowned King of both countries.

Should be noted that Bedford and the king were related so that was an additional incentive for him to fight for his King.

In said documentation they also tested Plate armor against Arrow speed in the Killzone - there was some penetration of the plate, but the padded coat below, didn't even have a mark, and the arrowhead got flatted and blunted to a point where it was utterly useless.

not sure if the English knights had plate armor (although obviously weaker) there too or not.
Maybe @Valonyx for that.

 

[Michcat]

Best method against fullbodied knights- Throw a molotov cocktail at 'em.

Molotov cocktails don't exist- you need petrol for them, which we obviously don't have.

@MRPolo13

Even the OLYMPIC SWIMMER found swimming in armour tough? I don't see any supporting evidence, bro, to say an average knight could swim about in platearmour
Furthermore, wading across a small stream or creek or what-have-you doesn't really require one "swims". I'm talking about full on, open ocean "swim or drown".

 

[skuller]

Molotov cocktails don't exist- you need petrol for them, which we obviously don't have.

@MRPolo13

Even the OLYMPIC SWIMMER found swimming in armour tough? I don't see any supporting evidence, bro, to say an average knight could swim about in platearmour
Furthermore, wading across a small stream or creek or what-have-you doesn't really require one "swims". I'm talking about full on, open ocean "swim or drown".

I thought Molotov's could have alcohol instead of petrol.

 

[JustTooRadical]

Molotov cocktails don't exist- you need petrol for them, which we obviously don't have.

@MRPolo13

Even the OLYMPIC SWIMMER found swimming in armour tough? I don't see any supporting evidence, bro, to say an average knight could swim about in platearmour
Furthermore, wading across a small stream or creek or what-have-you doesn't really require one "swims". I'm talking about full on, open ocean "swim or drown".

It was a joke, I know -.-

 

[Naelwyn]

I've seen five people do this on the server and make a mistake because it has "Cocktail" as part of it's title, and it's made me annoyed enough to correct it each time. Let's do it again.

A Molotov cocktail uses petrol(Gasoline) or napalm with a alchohol-soaked rag as a wick stuck inside the bottle along with motor oil. Ethanol just quickly flares up, and while it might scorch something, it's nothing like the cloying, sticky fire you get with a Molotov.

 

[MRPolo13]

Molotov cocktails don't exist- you need petrol for them, which we obviously don't have.

@MRPolo13

Even the OLYMPIC SWIMMER found swimming in armour tough? I don't see any supporting evidence, bro, to say an average knight could swim about in platearmour
Furthermore, wading across a small stream or creek or what-have-you doesn't really require one "swims". I'm talking about full on, open ocean "swim or drown".

Found it more difficult, not exactly tough. And yeah, I said small river or stream, not small stream or creek. Say, Altera-sized rivers, which are tiny, but deep enough for someone to drown in, and would have a current, which requires someone to be able to swim. Swimming across open ocean is dangerous at the best of times without wearing anything, so the whole argument could've been avoided simply by saying "a large portion of people would probably drown in an open ocean anyway."

 

[skuller]

I've seen five people do this on the server and make a mistake because it has "Cocktail" as part of it's title, and it's made me annoyed enough to correct it each time. Let's do it again.

A Molotov cocktail uses petrol(Gasoline) or napalm with a alchohol-soaked rag as a wick stuck inside the bottle along with motor oil. Ethanol just quickly flares up, and while it might scorch something, it's nothing like the cloying, sticky fire you get with a Molotov.

I searched what a Molotov cocktail consists of believing it can have alcohol as its fuel and what I found on this website: http://chemistry.about.com/od/firecombustionchemistry/a/molotovcocktail.htm says it can be made with gasoline or high proof alcohol. High proof being spirits I believe. I don't think we have that on the server so it couldn't be used any way but would suggest you're wrong when you say it can only have gasoline as its fuel. It even says any flammable liquid could be used.

 

[MRPolo13]

I searched what a Molotov cocktail consists of believing it can have alcohol as its fuel and what I found on this website: http://chemistry.about.com/od/firecombustionchemistry/a/molotovcocktail.htm says it can be made with gasoline or high proof alcohol. High proof being spirits I believe. I don't think we have that on the server so it couldn't be used any way but would suggest you're wrong when you say it can only have gasoline as its fuel.

Spirits existed throughout Medieval times and I used them a lot in RP. Vodka was apparently first mentioned in 12th century, and Whisky by 15th.

Bit of research is all it takes...

On a side note, apparently you required petrol to produce Molotov Cocktail.

 

[skuller]

Spirits existed throughout Medieval times and I used them a lot in RP. Vodka was apparently first mentioned in 12th century, and Whisky by 15th.

Bit of research is all it takes...

On a side note, apparently you required petrol to produce Molotov Cocktail.

My apologies I don't know much about alcohol. But what research I did of Molotov's define it as a glass bottle with a rag soaked in alcohol for a fuse. It would then be partially filled with a flammable liquid which could be alcohol.

 

[Naelwyn]

I'm getting really tired of people cherry-picking research and being argumentative when I'm, most of the time, trying to clarify things or help improve roleplay in the setting.

I've done cursory research on the word "Molotov Cocktail" and it mentioned Methanol, (Which is not Ethanol) which as far as I know, isn't strictly possible to pull out of refined alcohols without methods we don't have yet. (Though it's certainly possible to make something with a mix, it's not going to be remotely as effective, which is what I said before.)

I think the easier thing to say is quite simply that you aren't allowed to use them anyways because they lead to far too much impromptu arson and bypass a number of things anyways. If you learn Alchemy you make things supported by MC, splash potions, rather than refining chemical bombs, because it's a different history. Stop bringing in modern tech with the full benefit of hindsight bias and trying to one-up each other, please.

 

[DraconDarknight]

To get back to the original topic...
How to keep it from rusting?
Wax?
Also how would you apply that to the chain or scale mail below? (well scale is probably easier).
I mean they also had to run through rain, so the armors certainly got wet...

 

[Lannis]

To get back to the original topic...
How to keep it from rusting?
Wax?
Also how would you apply that to the chain or scale mail below? (well scale is probably easier).
I mean they also had to run through rain, so the armors certainly got wet...

@MRPolo13
Armor maintenance ain't my area of expertise, but I'm fairly certain oil was commonly used as a coating to keep armor lubricated and water off.

 

[Valonyx]

@MRPolo13
Armor maintenance ain't my area of expertise, but I'm fairly certain oil was commonly used as a coating to keep armor lubricated and water off.

Sometimes animal fats/grease were used aswell, depending on the culture/world region, if i'm not mistaken.

 

[Gregor]

To get back to the original topic...
How to keep it from rusting?
Wax?
Also how would you apply that to the chain or scale mail below? (well scale is probably easier).
I mean they also had to run through rain, so the armors certainly got wet...

A dull object has a rougher surface - many peaks and valleys. All those peaks and valleys also mean that a rough object has a greater surface area than a smooth object. This means that a rough object has more area exposed to the air, which means it will be more prone to rust! Worse, all those little valleys make for microscopic nooks and crannies for moisture to settle in and promote rust. Generally speaking, the shinier an object is the more resistant to rust it will be.

Hopefully you can now understand why rust is such a bad thing, and how important it is to keep it from happening in the first place. The unfortunate news is that steel objects just plain require preventative maintenance. There's no escaping that. But if you've got a fine helm, sword, or other object that you want to keep looking its best, there are a few things you can do. All of them involve some kind of coating on the surface of your object

Barrier coatings, as the name implies, form a barrier between the surface of the steel object and the atmosphere. Paint, wax, or oil are all examples of barrier coatings. The problem with barrier coatings is that they only work as long as they stay intact. As soon as the coating is scratched or otherwise worn off, it stops protecting the metal.

Sacrificial coatings usually function as barrier coatings, but they go a step further. Sacrificial coatings are made of a material that is "less noble" than the steel it is protecting. The end result of this is that the base metal will not corrode until all of the sacrificial coating has corroded away first, even if the finish is scratched or worn to expose some of the base metal.

The best barrier coating for mild steel object like armour is, in my opinion, a light oil. It has the advantage in that it can be easily removed when you want to actually polish the steel surface with a metal polish,

 

[Gregor]

I found a reliable way to defeat people in armour.

This technique is highly advanced, but is /highly/ efficient against people in any armour.

Age of plate is obsolete guys.

 

[Ace19]

Super Bump

 

[Gaby]

I found a reliable way to defeat people in armour.

This technique is highly advanced, but is /highly/ efficient against people in any armour.

Age of plate is obsolete guys.

excuse me I need to go laugh.

 

[Camernater3]

I found a reliable way to defeat people in armour.

This technique is highly advanced, but is /highly/ efficient against people in any armour.

Age of plate is obsolete guys.

make way for the age of sparta

 

[Teeke]

I found a reliable way to defeat people in armour.

This technique is highly advanced, but is /highly/ efficient against people in any armour.

Age of plate is obsolete guys.

Grappling, kicking, and etc ARE very effective forms of combat against someone in plate. Try it yourself for pro results!

 

[Gregor]

Grappling, kicking, and etc ARE very effective forms of combat against someone in plate. Try it yourself for pro results!

No one debated that xD, the thing was more for humorous intent1