Announcement Regarding the Use of Fly

[Immerael]

We have had concerns about fly abuse during the course of the War RP. It is for this reason that for the duration of the war, fly abuse by either side during the war events will result in a ban and removal of fly perms from your account. This is a server wide warning, after which all players will be assumed warned and any infraction is very likely to result in your ban.

This means the following;

• Do not use fly during RP war events, except where usage of fly is compliant with rules about climbing. Found here.
• Do not use fly around war targets, before, during or after the RP.
• Using it for other things to gain an IC/OOC advantage against the other party not listed here.

In fact its probably best for players in the war to restrict their use of fly to an absolute minimum or just forget it exists when not doing things in their own regions. Now that we've handled that, do not call people out on this thread. If you have concerns please contact your preferred staff member with a report either through PM or through the forums reporting system.

 

[JoeJoe]

I assume neutral OOC spectators, I know some people dislike them yet it's whatever, are allowed to find an area that doesn't disrupt the RP whilst having Fly?

 

[Naelwyn]

I assume neutral OOC spectators, I know some people dislike them yet it's whatever, are allowed to find an area that doesn't disrupt the RP whilst having Fly?

It's actually easier to observe the action of the events I wish to view now as someone whose whitelist has been removed.

 

[Spirit]

HAHA! Jokes on you! I'll just FALL WITH STYLE!

 

[Dark Auras]

I assume neutral OOC spectators, I know some people dislike them yet it's whatever, are allowed to find an area that doesn't disrupt the RP whilst having Fly?

In most cases you would either be too far away to see anything or you would be too close and you would be seen, is my opinion.

 

[French Roast]

I assume neutral OOC spectators, I know some people dislike them yet it's whatever, are allowed to find an area that doesn't disrupt the RP whilst having Fly?

iirc OOC spectators were not allowed at the attack on Queensport, I doubt it would change for other battles

 

[Immerael]

Far too easy if we allow it for one side to pick a person not particularly skilled at CRP In their ranks to be a neutral person who just wants to “observe” OOC. Then relay that information about troop movements/defenses through Skype etc. So no don’t look forward to being able to observe OOC.

 

[Naelwyn]

Far too easy if we allow it for one side to pick a person not particularly skilled at CRP In their ranks to be a neutral person who just wants to “observe” OOC. Then relay that information about troop movements/defenses through Skype etc. So no don’t look forward to being able to observe OOC.

This officially creates a scenario where people not part of the server have more rights than those on it. It's kinda sad to see this step being viewed as necessary.

 

[Baron]

How's this different from dynmap, which is even harder to enforce?

 

[Naelwyn]

How's this different from dynmap, which is even harder to enforce?

Baron, you've gotta let the rest of the class get a chance to answer these questions.

 

[NIAH]

How's this different from dynmap, which is even harder to enforce?

We're asking you to not fly around in RP. Relvance to dynamap? Doesnt matter if you see people on the map, because doing that doesnt distract from RP, or allow you to overhear battle plans.

Just don't fly around when people are RPing or try and metagame war plans via ooc spectating.

 

[Naelwyn]

We're asking you to not fly around in RP. Relvance to dynamap? Doesnt matter if you see people on the map, because doing that doesnt distract from RP, or allow you to overhear battle plans.

Just don't fly around when people are RPing or try and metagame war plans via ooc spectating.

Immarel is saying the justification for this is people using fly and 'neutrality' to commit reconnaissance. Ergo, Baron points out the map that shows everybody's current position and velocity.

It's a valid concern esp since flying close enough to get visual information shows you while one must assume everyone can see everything on the dynamic map at all times.

Since your current war rules conduct everything in-RP it confers an informational advantage unless adapted to, and a sincere amount of it. Formation, Position, whether or not the force is moving, splitting up to flank, etc.

 

[LeftwardElk]

Just allow /dynhide

 

[Lily_]

Just allow /dynhide

 

[Sir Arc]

Far too easy if we allow it for one side to pick a person not particularly skilled at CRP In their ranks to be a neutral person who just wants to “observe” OOC. Then relay that information about troop movements/defenses through Skype etc. So no don’t look forward to being able to observe OOC.

I hate getting into something like this, but the way you made it sound makes it seem like staff doesn't trust the players to follow the rules, which is sad. But then again I might have misunderstood something.

 

[Lily_]

I hate getting into something like this, but the way you made it sound makes it seem like staff doesn't trust the players to follow the rules, which is sad. But then again I might have misunderstood something.

It's not a mistrust, but a very likely and sad truth.

 

[Solus]

There's a limit on what builds people can see in dynmap. Players can't even see chat at all. There's also the fact that staff can see spectators and unwhitelisted players, so if there's an inkling of metagaming and running around a battle field, we'd step in.

Allowing dynmap hide globally also hinders a DM attempting to monitor players on the board. It's to his/her discretion on when to use it.

 

[Naelwyn]

(Hence, proper war rules with Mechanics remove these issues.

A stupid simple example:

"All parties in the skirmish draft and PM their 'war turns' worth of actions to the Governing DM. Once the DM has received all orders they execute them simultaneously."

There are all kinds of variations and ways to make this stuff not an issue in any way, shape, or form, but they're not implemented.

I just... I see more drama and arguments and it's avoidable and I'm attempting to spare folks having to deal with it.

 

[LeftwardElk]

Yeah but it’s even more frustrating when you’re planning something and everyone looks at the map to try and meta intervene what ever your legit rp is because they have the vision of a god.

 

[Immerael]

I hate getting into something like this, but the way you made it sound makes it seem like staff doesn't trust the players to follow the rules, which is sad. But then again I might have misunderstood something.

I'm moderation team. My job is constantly dealing with players not following the rules in one way or another. That said that particular line was to more so to prevent people from accusing the folks who are flying of supplying the other side information etc etc. Sometimes rules are placed for the person doing the actions protection. More of a lets prevent as much drama from occurring in the first place as possible as I'm sure they'll be plenty more to come.

Snip. Naelwyn's stuff

I'm just addressing as much of the issues as I can. Fundamental War Rules are beyond my scope or interest really, of course things can always be improved. As for workarounds there will always exist a way around whatever rules you make for the exceptionally dedicated and skilled. For example if someone was super dedicated they could create an alt player profile, hide their IP with a VPN, join the opposite faction and use their member status in the opposite factions Skype and in game camps to feed the opposite side information. I.E. No system is perfect. Yes the fly rule has some obvious workarounds and the ability for abuse of those various other systems exist. We will endeavor to fix those as we become aware of it and/if a solution exists that is workable without excessive amounts of work/negatively effects the rest of the playerbase. I've floated a few ideas about dealing with dynamap abuse (real or suspected; as whether it exists or not, the fact it could, and lack of trust between player groups causes a concern that is best addressed if nothing else to prevent more salt between groups) in staff and will bring up more until hopefully a solution can be found.

As for the war system itself feel free to make a detailed suggestion and tag Lannis in it. The war rules themselves are not what this thread is about but dealing with fly abuse reports we've handled and letting everyone on the server be on the same page going forward.