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Forlorn: Feedback

Elz

hmm
Events Staff
Very Sweet
Staff
So over the past week perhaps I've heard that some people seem to dislike aspects, while others enjoy it. Some people seem keen on logging off if I emote in the area, others feel restricted in movement. There's nothing wrong with feeling this way, but if I don't know I can't try to adjust things - So this thread is for feedback. Positive or negative, I know I can't appease everyone but if there's some problems shared amongst players then I can try to fix it up a bit. :) Thanks!
What do you like? What don't you? What should we be doing better/more of/less of?
 

Paint

Lord of Altera
Frosty
Retired Staff
ShadowAdmin
ShadowAdmin
Frosty
Honestly, I'm really enjoying the events.

For myself, it has given reason to login again and I've been on nearly every day of this week. The event has really drawn me in, and it has introduced me to server lore and the such that I've never experienced and admittedly, wasn't super interested in prior to the campaign. I'm not much of a lore guy, I like to go in headfirst and fight things, but the campaign has managed to be the only one I've experienced on the server that makes me want to dive into the lore of the server and experience different elements.
 

JoeJoe

Yeehonk
Mystic
Retired Staff
JoJoJoeJoe
JoJoJoeJoe
Mystic
Honestly, I'm really enjoying the events.

For myself, it has given reason to login again and I've been on nearly every day of this week. The event has really drawn me in, and it has introduced me to server lore and the such that I've never experienced and admittedly, wasn't super interested in prior to the campaign. I'm not much of a lore guy, I like to go in headfirst and fight things, but the campaign has managed to be the only one I've experienced on the server that makes me want to dive into the lore of the server and experience different elements.
^
 

Samwych

Lord of Altera
Merchant
Samwych
Samwych
Merchant
Writing wise I really enjoy the event, I love hearing new things and discovering them but I really feel like some new places have difficulty squeezing themselves into the narrative. It feels like people who have been on for a long time have taken the main roles in the campaign, and while that isn't a bad thing, it can make some players feel alienated. I personally want to get more involved and find out more about the campaign ICly, but it's a little difficult.
 

French Roast

Lord of Altera
Pronouns
She/Her
French_Roast
French_Roast
Writing-wise I love it. I think this is such a cool idea for a plague and the campaign name “Forlorn” is well-chosen, because you’ve definitely managed to make things feel rather hopeless and quite dark. I like that unlike previous campaigns, where it seemed like outside of organized events it was mostly just “business as usual”, the mood and events of the campaign have a pervasive effect on RP outside of the events as well and it feels like no matter where you are, you are affected and expected to react to it IC.

At the same time, that is also the biggest curse of this campaign. While from a narrative standpoint I absolutely adore the direction the campaign has taken and how widespread its effects are, there are people who don’t necessarily want to have much part in the campaign and/or still want to focus on their own ambitions. I’ve seen that the effects of the campaign has made it difficult for people to continue with their own unrelated events and plans, and so in that way I think it could stand to be made a bit less invasive- but the writer in me doesn’t want that to get in the way of the narrative elements. So I dunno.

Structure-wise I really like it as well. I’d say that this campaign has shaken up who is in the leading group quite well. Every campaign ends up having a group of people who largely leads the efforts and it generally falls on what people offer. Many previous campaigns fell largely on combat, crusading, fighting a very simple enemy, so it naturally fell onto those groups of combat-driven characters to lead. This campaign, while it does have its share of combat involved, doesn’t rely on it, instead the driving force is a larger battle that is made up of the combined efforts of physical combat, exploration and research, so the characters that lead are much more varied than in previous campaigns from what I can see.
 

Bartooliinii

An Alteran Bard
Patron
Retired Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
Slimy_Froggy
Slimy_Froggy
Patron
I wanna be part of it too! I feel like I'm missing out. Mostly cause I don't log on that much and the reason for that is cause I don't have a reason to log on unless I see some people online that I can RP with.
A question, rather than feedback; When would be a good time to log on to enjoy experiencing this campaign?
 

Auriel

Lord of Altera
Lover
Auriel_
Auriel_
Lover
If for not that I would cause problems if I came back given status, I will say a couple things, oddly enough they're all positive.

-Gave a reason to log in frequently
-Is/was/just fun.
-Interactive
-Fun times
-It brought people together.
 

lycana

Lord of Altera
Hero
FlyingDingo78900
FlyingDingo78900
Hero
I do like the campaign cause I have never seen something like this in my normal DnD sessions except for once and while it is a good and cool there are some issues with execution.
One failed part of the campaign in my opinion was the Compendium. While yes there was some good story and building to it, being trapped sucked. The worst part was being trapped with toxic players/characters and not having that choice to leave the area to avoid fights with them Icly or Oocly. Like a private conversation between friends could go easily south by a player/character jumping in that you didn't want to and forcing your character into a situation you /really/ didn't want or consented for to start with. If you tried to leave the room, they could easily just follow you and make you rage quit. You also had some players and characters that easily took the spotlight and became the protagonist cause of their powers/ links and it leaves other people who don't have those perks to go like "Well I tried to do something but evidently it was pointless". The Compendium part of the campaign honestly made me feel like not wanting to log on and I know I'm not alone at that part. There also was the fact players who wanted to help by experimenting on themselves just couldn't cause restriction to materials due to other players and the fact most of the building is locked away for only the main people in the campaign.
Any breakthroughs made by players were not communicated with others which is another downfall. Rival houses/ Factions play into this a lot and is another example of why you can't shove people together in a tiny building and expect it to be ok Icly or Oocly. Trust me, I know of a whole group who has been sitting back and just shit talking other players Oocly for having a caparii or other dumb reasons. I personally try to avoid the players I know who do this like the plague but being stuck together makes running into each other near impossible to avoid and causes a lot of not need stress and drama. Communication is the key to this campaign but it's hard cause the players are separated into groups and if you think this campaign will bring the lot of people together with others, be ready to only be partially happy with the outcome and mainly disappointed.

I personally liked how it strengthened some bonds between close characters and made them change. It made people come together but also pushed them /very/ far away. Although the idea was good, the execution by the players and others killed a very cool thing that had potential. If this was to be done in the future, I would keep a few aspects such as the monster attacks and The Watchers. They were an interesting thing that I logged on just to see in a bleak hospital rp. I do enjoy how I and others have had the ability to start being diplomatic and making allies as well. Another thing I loved was the unannounced events and such happening at about the same time everyday so if you wanted to take part you just had to be in the right place at the right time and be ready (Or not if you like a challenge). I also enjoyed how widespread it is but that is also a downfall for all the folks who want to just have some slice of life and log on for that. I personally am a sucker for character development and such and that's what the campaign has offered to many others. Want your happy go lucky elf boy to get crippling paranoia and learn the world is a terrible place or have your stern knight realize they just aren't as strong as they thought? Boom, get involved with the campaign and have them learn first hand.

While I can say a lot about the campaign, these are just what I think and I know others will think differently and disagree but it's were I stand. There are always pros and cons to everything and they can change from person to person.

TL-DR-
Overall, I am enjoying the campaign- there are just aspects I don't like but I can suffer if I get that sweet, sweet plot and character development.
 

Elz

hmm
Events Staff
Very Sweet
Staff
I wanna be part of it too! I feel like I'm missing out. Mostly cause I don't log on that much and the reason for that is cause I don't have a reason to log on unless I see some people online that I can RP with.
A question, rather than feedback; When would be a good time to log on to enjoy experiencing this campaign?
I'm not sure I have a good answer there - A lot of people seem to be online from midnight to 5am GMT which is a bit weird but I'm online stupidly late now. I tend to do events based around the people present, so when there's a good few on in one place I'll gravitate there. Though the past week it's been a bit quiet on my end, it'll pick up again.

Also thanks for the feedback - I won't be replying to everyone but I am reading through it. :)
 

NIAH

The Lurker
Retired Staff
I do like the campaign cause I have never seen something like this in my normal DnD sessions except for once and while it is a good and cool there are some issues with execution.
One failed part of the campaign in my opinion was the Compendium. While yes there was some good story and building to it, being trapped sucked. The worst part was being trapped with toxic players/characters and not having that choice to leave the area to avoid fights with them Icly or Oocly. Like a private conversation between friends could go easily south by a player/character jumping in that you didn't want to and forcing your character into a situation you /really/ didn't want or consented for to start with. If you tried to leave the room, they could easily just follow you and make you rage quit. You also had some players and characters that easily took the spotlight and became the protagonist cause of their powers/ links and it leaves other people who don't have those perks to go like "Well I tried to do something but evidently it was pointless". The Compendium part of the campaign honestly made me feel like not wanting to log on and I know I'm not alone at that part. There also was the fact players who wanted to help by experimenting on themselves just couldn't cause restriction to materials due to other players and the fact most of the building is locked away for only the main people in the campaign.
Any breakthroughs made by players were not communicated with others which is another downfall. Rival houses/ Factions play into this a lot and is another example of why you can't shove people together in a tiny building and expect it to be ok Icly or Oocly. Trust me, I know of a whole group who has been sitting back and just shit talking other players Oocly for having a caparii or other dumb reasons. I personally try to avoid the players I know who do this like the plague but being stuck together makes running into each other near impossible to avoid and causes a lot of not need stress and drama. Communication is the key to this campaign but it's hard cause the players are separated into groups and if you think this campaign will bring the lot of people together with others, be ready to only be partially happy with the outcome and mainly disappointed.

I personally liked how it strengthened some bonds between close characters and made them change. It made people come together but also pushed them /very/ far away. Although the idea was good, the execution by the players and others killed a very cool thing that had potential. If this was to be done in the future, I would keep a few aspects such as the monster attacks and The Watchers. They were an interesting thing that I logged on just to see in a bleak hospital rp. I do enjoy how I and others have had the ability to start being diplomatic and making allies as well. Another thing I loved was the unannounced events and such happening at about the same time everyday so if you wanted to take part you just had to be in the right place at the right time and be ready (Or not if you like a challenge). I also enjoyed how widespread it is but that is also a downfall for all the folks who want to just have some slice of life and log on for that. I personally am a sucker for character development and such and that's what the campaign has offered to many others. Want your happy go lucky elf boy to get crippling paranoia and learn the world is a terrible place or have your stern knight realize they just aren't as strong as they thought? Boom, get involved with the campaign and have them learn first hand.

While I can say a lot about the campaign, these are just what I think and I know others will think differently and disagree but it's were I stand. There are always pros and cons to everything and they can change from person to person.

TL-DR-
Overall, I am enjoying the campaign- there are just aspects I don't like but I can suffer if I get that sweet, sweet plot and character development.
I just wanted to take a moment to respond to this post in particular. I think a lot of your points are extremely valid, but I also think that the campaign isn't the source for some of them. I think how the players themselves responded is part of that, and I would like to apologize for some of it.

Compendium was not Elz's doing or design, so I do not think it's really fair to use that as a critique for what the campaign is. The Compendium experience was fully a player driven endeavor that evolved in response to everything. Not something the campaign runner designed or intended to happen. In part, it happened because Elizabeth announced that Compendium was the research capital and declared that all healers and physicians were to come there as a focus for the cure efforts. She asked Olive to bring all of the patients from the Storm's Landing hospital to Compendium and that is sort of how that began. OOCly, I wanted to try and bring the map together in one place because my biggest upset about the server is how clique and faction based it is. "This group never interacts with that group," and "That group refuses to RP with that group if they're in an area." I was hoping that by Elizabeth pulling everyone into one city ICly, that it would create new and exciting character interactions. And I think that worked. However, I think so many players confused IC aggression for OOC aggression, and blend the two. When a character does something hostile, that does not mean that players behind the action are hostile to the other party.

But what Compendium was was a beautiful, horrendous, disgusting, and glorious mess of fear and paranoia. It was how players responded to the random happenings that Elz put together, so I think it is unfair to say it is Elz's fault. She could not control how players and characters responded to what she threw into the world. The quarantine was many characters' way of dealing with the fear and the unknowns on the disease. When we didn't know how it progressed, or how it affected people,. we responded by quarantine for observation and care. But also, no one was ever forced to stay in the hospital until it got fairly severe. The standing agreement Olive set was that you could leave at any time, but that treatment would be refused if you returned because she saw it as that person risking the lives of others carelessly to potentially spread it. But once we began figuring out the cures, then we tried to get folks out of the hospital as quickly as we could.

I do apologize that it left a bad taste the mouths of many players, but in looking at the last month or two, I have actually been SO proud of the server BECAUSE people who don't like each other are RPing together. I feel like cliques and groups have become less pronounced and it feels like everyone banding together to fight for survival as a whole. It does not fix the OOC drama between players, but I sincerely hope that many of us are mature enough to realize that a character fighting another does not mean that player is being OOCly hostile to you, or that a player is targeting you. It is all just roleplay at the end of the day.

As far as the separated into groups thing, I will concede that point. While we are all RPing in the same place and interacting, there are still subsets of groups. (But what's made me ecstatic is that we're all RPing together in general, even if some groups are secretive.) But I do apologize, because I know that my character is part of the secretive group. I am not sure how to respond to it, as she fully believes that the Entity is watching at all times, and that the best way to fight it is by keeping things secret to avoid it discovering that "such and such thing" has been figured out by anyone. And that does create a disconnect with others. As a player, I want to make sure everyone can be included and having as much fun as possible. But Elizabeth as a character wants to make sure everyone stays alive as long as possible and is willing to withhold information if it means staying one step ahead. She doesn't trust those with loose lips, those she doesn't know, those that are infected, etc.

I think for those that WANT to be involved, it's really just a matter of considering what playstyle you enjoy and what level involvement you want to have. If you want more involvement, I recommend looking at ways to make your character useful and noticed. Try doing some research. There's still A LOT we don't know. Or find a way to contribute to the health and safety of the refugees and infected. Or if you like combat, considering joining local militia and defense efforts. The "protagonists" are only that because there are characters that choose to follow their orders. But that does not mean others are unable to participate or join in. If your character dislikes the shot callers, you could start some juicy drama to call them out, or you could talk to them to see how you can get involved. But again, that is all part of the player experience and roleplaying. Not something the campaign designed to happened, or that Elz orchestrated.


TL;DR: I don't think Elz can control how players respond to what she does. She hasn't really been the one setting events and choosing what happens, so much as players. But I think your concerns with player experience is valid, but worked around with more communication. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding that conflict IC is not conflict OOC, and perhaps a clashing of what different groups find to be enjoyable RP. But I am ecstatic that people from different groups are regularly RPing with one another. Some players would have never otherwise met or spoken ICly if not for the way this campaign brought everyone together in close quarters.
 

Archbishop

Faith prevail
Retired Staff
Archbishop
Archbishop
I would log in more if I had the time :(

But I do enjoy the world-influencing aspects of the campaign. I love that you took the region consent literally and damaged or destroyed some of the regions that would have an influence on this world building. My own complaint is that Solus still has not gotten back to me about me finding a home in Linlea for my Moor. (I kid, but I seriously need somewhere to live).
 

Jase

"Something need doing?"
Legend
But what Compendium was was a beautiful, horrendous, disgusting, and glorious mess of fear and paranoia.
So true. I really loved the atmosphere. It was so perfect in terms of story dev for chars.
 

Heie

Lord of Altera
Lore Staff
Legend
Staff
I like how this campaign shoves people together. I have personally been able to rp with people I never otherwise would have. Some of those from groups he doesn't particularly like, and others that would typically be in places he wouldn't travel to. Groups of individuals that would typically stay apart are working together, making for interesting rp.
 

Icanra

Lord of Altera
Merchant
Icanra
Icanra
Merchant
One thing I especially like about this campaign is how it quite literally simulates fear. The fact that we are kept in the dark about 90% of the time about whats happening is well done and it means we (alike our characters) would start to suffer the same paranoia and start to question even the most simple and harmless things. Which is alike how a plague was, the characters have no idea about what is going on and it blurs the line between sticking to order and routine, or decending into chaos which is what a plague event should be. Granted there are a few tiny lil things which could have been done differently or improved upon. But overall i have enjoyed this event chain so far :p
 

Solus

object oriented
Staff member
Admin
Retired Owner
My own complaint is that @Solus still has not gotten back to me about me finding a home in Linlea for my Moor. (I kid, but I seriously need somewhere to live).
*sweeps complaint away.* Done!

I wanted to talk about character involvement on this thread. There was mention of older characters getting more attention/rp and new players not having much to do and not everyone wanting/being able to take part. There are different threads of thought to what I'm about to write, so I hope it all makes sense in the end.

Reputation- The older characters involved in the current campaign tend to have a reputation built up. I can reflect that with my own character- Linlea's helped people through the last traumatic migration from the northern kingdoms and now again here. Our region just tends to be fallen back to in such times and we've built a reputation for it that eventually ends up getting us rp more than usual in certain situations. I would be more than happy to share the hours of rp that I've had to do with so many folks coming in. I feel that most new players feel as they don't get much roleplay because reputation hasn't been built yet. The more roleplay and involvement you attempt to do, the better you'll be noticed by event folks or at least those who've involved themselves in the core aspects of the campaign. If you look like you're shying away from involving yourself, oocly and icly, we're less inclined to rp towards where you are. If you're looking for some character development to build some reputation, campaign events are your chance! However- I'm not saying this is catch all success story- there will be some situations where you try to put yourself out there and it doesn't always work out how one wants. It's the attempt that counts, I feel. So long as you're having fun.

Difference between Compendium atmosphere vs Linlea - I'm not sure if it's taken a dive or if it's a little better since I haven't been personally talked to about it. I've heard some complaints on the side. It's definitely less chaotic in the region than it was in the compendium, from what I've heard. But in both cases, folks are still clustered together, especially with all the new restrictions given to 'refugees'. I just hope no one's feeling entrapped. (as opposed to those who do things ic for it happening...) And like compendium, if you're healthy in-character and leave, you're free to do that.

Player activity - I've heard this complaint on the side, that some folks who've set themselves up as core people to go to in the campaign aren't always available. I'm sorta part of that- and it's mostly due to my own activity and time. I can't always roleplay or have motivation to rp with each and everyone, which is why there's a tiered system setup for the refugees. There's not much one can do if stuff comes up and other folks should be gone to for rp. I just want to put it out there as this goes for other people that have involved themselves in it.

Variety - I'm partial to the variety this campaign has given. I do try to make sure event staff led campaigns aren't all focused on combat. Part of the last one and this current one has definitely been less focus on combat and leans more on player interaction, some combat, and some lore reveals. There has been violence, though, but other situations of solving mysteries and being strategic has also been put into play, which is great.

Out-of-Campaign-RP - I do agree when there's a major campaign server event, that it tends to effect the atmosphere of the rest of the regions map indirectly. It tends to slow projects and other events. ie- who's going to host a ball or other small expeditions un-related during a major plague across the map? (nobility and merchants, that's who! It may be insensitive In-character, but it does happen in history/in-life). It's alright to be flexible, but I can see this being an issue, as it has been for other campaigns. This also shows how well the atmosphere changes to effect things outside it's scope.
 

Rawkiller

Lord of Altera
Crafter
Mystic
Rawkiller12
Rawkiller12
LegendMystic
I have to note on the player activity side i am currently out of my home snd state at a NCO school for the army. Even with not having internet or my desktop around, I choose to get involved in the research aspect. I give props to the staff team as they have been prompt in replying on the forums as I reply back. Which lets me continue to be involved in my own way even not being a core person, or even if things have already been discovered but my char doesnt know about they still reply.
 

Elz

hmm
Events Staff
Very Sweet
Staff
May be a good time to bump! In regards to the dungeons, there are several things I try to get across but I don't consider myself too great at implementing it. Sometimes as a result things get real slow, and I try to (like with most of the campaign) leave it mostly in the players hands with little handholding. I've tried to work on the timing, but still racked up 6 hours in the event tonight. But having multiple parts (See the desert one) was also not ideal. I struggled with making a boss that was extremely hard to fight without making it feel like it was unbeatable, but it did have an easier way to kill off and perhaps I should've eluded to it more.
Another issue was the players - There were around 25 people there at the start and that makes things very hard to DM (There were 2 of us, so even in 2 groups it was hard), but to do different events means a second expedition there may have the dungeon already 'finished'.
What were thoughts? Did we do alright, or is there things you'd like to change? What did you like/dislike?
 

Bartooliinii

An Alteran Bard
Patron
Retired Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
Slimy_Froggy
Slimy_Froggy
Patron
+ I really like that the last campaign event (spelunking II) added new creatures to the world
+ I got those old feels again, cause we were with a huge group of which nobody knew exactly what to expect
- We started at 21.00 and I had to leave at 24:00 because of sleep, yet we have only fought one group of creatures and were busy fighting another, pity I couldn't see it till the end.
+ Everyone was very polite about OOC stuff, almost nobody used the rp chat either after we got told to put ooc into local, nor did anyone spam either chats.
+ the fact that the cave is in the main world and that someone could theoretically happen upon it by chance is great
- With the grief-campaign, there was someone leading the group and the positive thing about that was that it allowed for other characters to become significant (a general, a scribe, a random scout).
Both by their own initiative as well as by the leading party giving people tasks to do that made them feel more accomplished and appreciated. I do miss that here; a few characters I can go to if I want to become more involved during and inbetween campaign events.
+ The DM's must have robot-eyes, cause they were very responsive to emotes and questions, often within a minute or perhaps 2.

That's all I've got I think, I tried to sandwich it :) Looking forward to the next event.
 
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