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How far is "Eastern"?

Jak

Magus of Nothing
Legend
I tend to read through the whitelist applications as they come in, as I like to see who I might be roleplaying with. Recently, however, there have been some confusing (from my point of view) decisions regarding the moderation of the test section and this ties in heavily with not just the applications, but how we view and RP in our new world.

Essentially, what cultures are considered "Eastern" and therefore banned according to the server rules? The main example I have seen, of a culture that should by all rights have been accepted (being western and/or situated in Europe) is that of the Byzantine Empire, also the Eastern Roman Empire. Without knowledge about the Byzantines, the use of the word "Eastern" in it's title may raise concerns, but this is relative to Rome.

Byzantium did have territories in Asia, but their capital and their heartland was in Europe (modern day Istanbul, Bulgaria and Greece).


In addition, there are other examples at the fringes of Europe - Where do we draw the line in Russia? At the Urals? Are Mongolian-based cultures allowed? No? What about other horse-based cultures?

Similarly, where do Arabic-based cultures fit it? Up to 1084, there were Muslims in Sicily, and the Moors in Spain were a huge influence on the local culture, especially in the south of Spain (Andalusia).

I believe that any culture that bounded the Mediterranean should definitely be allowed to be used, or inspiration drawn from. I mean, we have a huge-ass desert that's about 1/5th of the map's landmass - Arabic inspired cultures would fit in here perfectly.

However, I'm by no means advocating we allow Chinese, Indian, Japanese influences. They simply did not affect Europe as greatly.

I'd like to hear other opinions too, as to what people think fits/doesn't fit.
 

CyberChaosV2

Lord of Altera
I tend to read through the whitelist applications as they come in, as I like to see who I might be roleplaying with. Recently, however, there have been some confusing (from my point of view) decisions regarding the moderation of the test section and this ties in heavily with not just the applications, but how we view and RP in our new world.

Essentially, what cultures are considered "Eastern" and therefore banned according to the server rules? The main example I have seen, of a culture that should by all rights have been accepted (being western and/or situated in Europe) is that of the Byzantine Empire, also the Eastern Roman Empire. Without knowledge about the Byzantines, the use of the word "Eastern" in it's title may raise concerns, but this is relative to Rome.

Byzantium did have territories in Asia, but their capital and their heartland was in Europe (modern day Istanbul, Bulgaria and Greece).


In addition, there are other examples at the fringes of Europe - Where do we draw the line in Russia? At the Urals? Are Mongolian-based cultures allowed? No? What about other horse-based cultures?

Similarly, where do Arabic-based cultures fit it? Up to 1084, there were Muslims in Sicily, and the Moors in Spain were a huge influence on the local culture, especially in the south of Spain (Andalusia).

I believe that any culture that bounded the Mediterranean should definitely be allowed to be used, or inspiration drawn from. I mean, we have a huge-ass desert that's about 1/5th of the map's landmass - Arabic inspired cultures would fit in here perfectly.

However, I'm by no means advocating we allow Chinese, Indian, Japanese influences. They simply did not affect Europe as greatly.

I'd like to hear other opinions too, as to what people think fits/doesn't fit.
I whole heartedly agree, as it would bring in new sorts of cultures, as well as creations to be moved around. I honestly don't know what else to say than your last two statements seem perfectly logical to me.
 

Azur

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
A_Z_U_R
A_Z_U_R
Lover
Similarly, where do Arabic-based cultures fit it? Up to 1084, there were Muslims in Sicily, and the Moors in Spain were a huge influence on the local culture, especially in the south of Spain (Andalusia).

I believe that any culture that bounded the Mediterranean should definitely be allowed to be used, or inspiration drawn from. I mean, we have a huge-ass desert that's about 1/5th of the map's landmass - Arabic inspired cultures would fit in here perfectly.
Soolerans are a thing.
 

Azur

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
A_Z_U_R
A_Z_U_R
Lover
Caravaners who happen to be brown - They're basically dark-skinned gypsies.

Arabic/North-African cultures are much broader than that.
If you want the broader cultures and think they should be added, make the lore for them. There's nothing stopping you from making a cultural thing as part of lore and sending it to Cherry or someone else in charge to see if it'll get accepted. I personally don't see why this would need to be discussed, mainly because:

A. It has a simple solution, which is submitting for the cultures.
B. It's been brought up before, though I can't remember if the argument/debate went well. Regardless, the server is very clearly split about the idea of adding cultures that aren't just European.

I myself don't care for adding additional cultures, as it doesn't interest me. Though if it's a large concern of someone that they'd like to see these or other cultures added, they should make the lore for it instead of saying how much they wished it was a thing.
 

The Courier

Lord of Altera
I mean- I've already got a Byzantium tier character named Ferrous. Currently with war elephant hidden inside of Rex Lonmar's home. :^)
 

Jak

Magus of Nothing
Legend
A. It has a simple solution, which is submitting for the cultures.
It's more that, I don't feel this should be needed. If you want to create a character that speaks common, but is Greek in mannerisms and appearance, that should be allowed from my point of view. Same with Arabs, Mongols, Russians.

I suppose maybe I'm unsure on this - are we allowed to create a character from say, "Russia"? If yes, then where do we draw the line? Where does it stop being a character quirk and start being a full-on culture? If "Russia" is allowed, then is "Kazakhstan", is "Mongol Tribe"? I sort of want to know where people think the line should be drawn, if at all.
 

Immerael

The Shadow Admín
Retired Staff
I always thought the cut off was the old Roman Empire at its height. Which includes the areas of Byzantium.

This also includes Northern Africa, the Middle East and areas of the near east. I think the big thing is no one wants Cherry blossom trees and warriors called Xing Zhao. I mean I like Asian things but it's a theme thing.
 

Jaypate

Lord of Altera
I have a char, Nonna, who is meant to be very Russian-esque... But i haven't played her all that much yet because:

A: I don't now how far i can go with the cultural inspiration/ influence
B: I can never really seem to find RP to help her develop (Which is an entirely different matter outside of the subject brought up here, but is partially due to me being unsure as to how far i can take the Influences when RP'ing)

But yes, I would like moar cultures, especially a Russian-esque one that I can tie said character too... :3
 

Jak

Magus of Nothing
Legend
I always thought the cut off was the old Roman Empire at its height.
This seems ideal to me. Of course, we're then fantasy so people should 100% add their own flair and such, to these. Perhaps the Arabic horse warriors, or whatever they may be, are fervent worshippers of the Pantheon, but they call them by different names and they may appear differently.
 

Magiik

Lord of Altera
As someone who plays a desert dweller with a Persian accent, I would think my stance on the matter is rather clear.
I agree with Imm's idea as to the boundaries. With the wide variety of climates we have on the map, plus the huge amounts of influence all of these various civilizations had on medieval Europe, allowing some cultures that expanded beyond the scopes of the geographical area of Europe seems a good idea. Barring the far east, of course.
 

Smurf

Lord of Altera
Mystic
Hiraetha
Hiraetha
Mystic
Hopefully if we expand the 'boundaries' it won't include little kawaii fox people in tight skirts right??? That's the only thing I'm concerned about. Other than that, I think that if people want to add cultures, they should write the lore for them themselves.
 

NIAH

The Lurker
Retired Staff
On another thread recently, Cherry said influences were European and Meditteranean. I really don't care one way or the other if we have Mongols and whatnot, but it opens up a headache of subjective approvals. It's easy to make a hard cutoff at European and Meditteranean because that'll be one less thing to moderate. Adding an element were someone has to subjectively moderate what is too Eastern, what technology that might accidentally add, and sifting through an influx of cultural submissions, seems a lot of work on staff. Just something to consider from a staff perspective, because it'll make it a lot harder to focus on new world lore when staff now also have to juggle five six-page cultural lore write-ups.
 

NIAH

The Lurker
Retired Staff
They were in Europe due to invasion, yes. But invading Europe does not necessarily mean they are European. As well as Altera not having a mirrored time line to Earth all of the time. So even if eastern cultures invaded Europe once, it doesn't automatically equate to Alter having those eastern influences.

I'm just saying that if we open the door a tiny bit, it's going to be a headache for someone to have to sift through a subjective sea of influences.
 

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
If you want the broader cultures and think they should be added, make the lore for them
The point Jak was trying to make is that people applying as "Byzantine" should be allowed in. If I was a new player and said I was inspired by Byzantium I should be allowed to play on the server, as the Byzantine Empire was the most European country on Earth after the fall of Roman Empire if you want to be specific, at least until Renaissance. A new player isn't exactly in position to make lore about a culture though, now is he?
 
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