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How far is "Eastern"?

Cap

Lord of Altera
Legend
And this I agree with, mostly - but how do we define "Europe"?

Especially because we have this huge desert, which is not at all European.

I simply think there's no harm in opening up the cultures of North Africa and Arabia; there's no katanas or such there; scimitars, sure, but that's not exactly an exotic weapon.

Coming back to my first question, I think if we're going to use terms such as "Eastern influences" we need to literally draw a line somewhere.
i mean me and rygan and blarg's soolerans were turban wearing scimitar wielding nomads and staff approved of it i don't think Arabia is in any way banned
 

Smurf

Lord of Altera
Mystic
Hiraetha
Hiraetha
Mystic
Its been a long time since the "Dont make orphan assassin characters" rule has been actively enforced even when Ive seen it run heavily rampant, forgive me but placing a culture block because a rule isnt enforced properly sounds heavily incorrect and not researched.

With that being said (also, for a reference I heavily agree wirh people saying cultures shouls be written up. With that though) I don't believe (to my knowledge) that the server/community as a whole has ever been able to work with high-level eastern influences.

And of course, a side note: Legacy-Gunpowder.
There are't many orphan assassin characters running around anymore on HW???? Orphans, sure, but assassins... No. And certainly not the two combined. It is in the whitelist and often appears in a large notice ingame, so it is.. Enforced... So the rest of what you said doesn't make any sense...

For a while I did see characters running around with katanas (keep in mind this was last 2013/early 2014) and pretending to be ninjas. The server has made great improvements and making the 'no katanas/super ninjas allowed' seemed to help with that.

If it is hard for people to follow the lore on basic elves now, how could the lore team expect them to stick to eastern cultures without going 'kawaii fox people' or, as Baron put it, characters with katanas who act like ninjas?

Gunpowder originated in China, but so did many things that people use in Altera/used in Europe at the time. Saying that Alterans managed to create those things isn't out of this world, as they probably would have figured it out after a certain amount of time if they were moving from world to world in different geographical regions like the people of Altera.
 

Jak

Magus of Nothing
Legend
i mean me and rygan and blarg's soolerans were turban wearing scimitar wielding nomads and staff approved of it i don't think Arabia is in any way banned
Did not know this; seems good then.
 

Cap

Lord of Altera
Legend
Did not know this; seems good then.
at one point we had arch join us as a fellow aladdin stereotype and regularly RPed with icefire in thiil if you require any more justification
 

Auriel

Lord of Altera
Lover
Auriel_
Auriel_
Lover
There are't many orphan assassin characters running around anymore on HW???? Orphans, sure, but assassins... No. And certainly not the two combined. It is in the whitelist and often appears in a large notice ingame, so it is.. Enforced... So the rest of what you said doesn't make any sense...

For a while I did see characters running around with katanas (keep in mind this was last 2013/early 2014) and pretending to be ninjas. The server has made great improvements and making the 'no katanas/super ninjas allowed' seemed to help with that.

If it is hard for people to follow the lore on basic elves now, how could the lore team expect them to stick to eastern cultures without going 'kawaii fox people' or, as Baron put it, characters with katanas who act like ninjas?

Gunpowder originated in China, but so did many things that people use in Altera/used in Europe at the time. Saying that Alterans managed to create those things isn't out of this world, as they probably would have figured it out after a certain amount of time if they were moving from world to world in different geographical regions like the people of Altera.
Orphan Assassins are commonly known as insta-skilled characters with an arsenal for killing and are likely heavily (characters made literally just for killing..) unplausible, the rest of what I said was pretty viable.

I can also say with utmost certainty that yes, at a time there was a rampant population of orphan assassins. Whole heartedly agree with the kawaii foz people.

With that, (opening up a box I shouldnt open, but whatever, and this isnt a bash) but if we're restricting certain innovations/discoveries just by how much we traveled, surely we shouls be open to much more.
 

Smurf

Lord of Altera
Mystic
Hiraetha
Hiraetha
Mystic
Orphan Assassins are commonly known as insta-skilled characters with an arsenal for killing and are likely heavily (characters made literally just for killing..) unplausible, the rest of what I said was pretty viable.

I can also say with utmost certainty that yes, at a time there was a rampant population of orphan assassins. Whole heartedly agree with the kawaii foz people.

With that, (opening up a box I shouldnt open, but whatever, and this isnt a bash) but if we're restricting certain innovations/discoveries just by how much we traveled, surely we shouls be open to much more.
I've seen mentors decline apps because characters are insta-skilled, and there are rules in place for armor/weapons, so that bit is enforced.

You also joined less than a year ago and in that time not much has changed with characters like that, so 'rampant population' doesn't make 100% sense? Unless you mean before you came, when everyone could use magic and not much was restricted. It has remained pretty stable and healthy in the past few years thank to staff, I'd say.
 

Jak

Magus of Nothing
Legend
I can also say with utmost certainty that yes, at a time there was a rampant population of orphan assassins.
Yeah like 2012-2013. Since then, minor. No issues regarding rampant population of orphan assassins in the pas three/two years. So long ago it's not even worth mentioning cause there wasn't even proper lore written at that time, about -anything-.
 

Baron

Sovereign
Retired Staff
And this I agree with, mostly - but how do we define "Europe"?

Especially because we have this huge desert, which is not at all European.

I simply think there's no harm in opening up the cultures of North Africa and Arabia; there's no katanas or such there; scimitars, sure, but that's not exactly an exotic weapon.

Coming back to my first question, I think if we're going to use terms such as "Eastern influences" we need to literally draw a line somewhere.
China, Japan, Korea, Southeast Asia, sub-Saharan Africa, India, the Americas, all off-limits. If it's outside the middle East, Western Europe, Eastern Europe (+Russia & Mongols), and Scandinavia, it's not allowed.
 

Baron

Sovereign
Retired Staff
Yeah like 2012-2013. Since then, minor. No issues regarding rampant population of orphan assassins in the pas three/two years. So long ago it's not even worth mentioning cause there wasn't even proper lore written at that time, about -anything-.
That suggests the rule works.
 

Archbishop

Faith prevail
Retired Staff
Archbishop
Archbishop
i mean me and rygan and blarg's soolerans were turban wearing scimitar wielding nomads and staff approved of it i don't think Arabia is in any way banned
*Starts singing in a sweat tent while passing the pipe*
 

Faelin

The Court Jester
Retired Staff
Ah, crumbs, they've discovered my weakness. Drawing lines.

Mainly because, as certain Golden Horde references have established, it's all very well saying "Europe, not Asia" if Asia doesn't plan on staying put. Equally, it's not much use my saying X amount of Asian influence is reasonable, because said X amount will undoubtedly have been influenced by things further East, at which point we have to start asking how far Far Eastern is too far Far Eastern? And that would get... confusing.

The present rule ("European and Mediterranean") is questionable and flimsy, but this is intentional.

It ensures that the creators of cultures which are borderline acceptable have to pitch their idea at us (not necessarily in full) before assuming that the rules give them the right to go on their merry way. Typically, if said elevator pitch smells a lot like someone who just wants Mongol bows or Russian vodka or some other perk, or someone whose only knowledge of Arabian culture is Disney's Aladdin, odds are you're not in for a happy conversation.

If, however, it sounds like you know vaguely what you're talking about, and if you can respond to questions about how it would mesh with the current cultures of Altera, and if it's clear you've used your imagination as well as Wikipedia, you have a fighting chance at gaining permission. However, it should be noted that the further East you're looking for inspiration, the less likely you will be allowed to write/play the culture, and the actual Far East is out of the question for reasons which have been well-articulated by Cap's forum alerts.

The safer bets for outside-the-box cultures, however, are those which match the "Mediterranean" specification, such as long-term cultures of the Near East/Asia Minor, and/or the North coast of Africa. As the Byzantine Empire was chilling in the vicinity for a ridiculously extensive period of time, that's a good example of a reasonable source.
 

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Ah, crumbs, they've discovered my weakness. Drawing lines.

Mainly because, as certain Golden Horde references have established, it's all very well saying "Europe, not Asia" if Asia doesn't plan on staying put. Equally, it's not much use my saying X amount of Asian influence is reasonable, because said X amount will undoubtedly have been influenced by things further East, at which point we have to start asking how far Far Eastern is too far Far Eastern? And that would get... confusing.

The present rule ("European and Mediterranean") is questionable and flimsy, but this is intentional.

It ensures that the creators of cultures which are borderline acceptable have to pitch their idea at us (not necessarily in full) before assuming that the rules give them the right to go on their merry way. Typically, if said elevator pitch smells a lot like someone who just wants Mongol bows or Russian vodka or some other perk, or someone whose only knowledge of Arabian culture is Disney's Aladdin, odds are you're not in for a happy conversation.

If, however, it sounds like you know vaguely what you're talking about, and if you can respond to questions about how it would mesh with the current cultures of Altera, and if it's clear you've used your imagination as well as Wikipedia, you have a fighting chance at gaining permission. However, it should be noted that the further East you're looking for inspiration, the less likely you will be allowed to write/play the culture, and the actual Far East is out of the question for reasons which have been well-articulated by Cap's forum alerts.

The safer bets for outside-the-box cultures, however, are those which match the "Mediterranean" specification, such as long-term cultures of the Near East/Asia Minor, and/or the North coast of Africa. As the Byzantine Empire was chilling in the vicinity for a ridiculously extensive period of time, that's a good example of a reasonable source.
That's a good answer, but what about the anecdotal whitelist application? The person in question seemed to know what they were talking about, and expressed an interest in submitting a culture application once they were whitelisted. However they were straight-up declined. To quote:

"So, uh, I plan on submitting some culture lore that this family would be bringing with them. I'm not sure if that would be allowed, and if it is, where I could submit it for review. The culture would essentially be Byzantine in style, with some slightly ancient Roman themes, and the language would be a mix of Greek and Latin. I'm open to suggestions on how to make this work, because I know the middle ages were not in the realm of Roman-Greek culture, however, the Byzantines were technically the Eastern Empire, so perhaps I could submit something like that? Anyways, I hope this entire whitelist is acceptable to you. A few more of my friends will be playing as my family members IRP, so yeah :D"

He seemed more than happy to cooperate on the front too.
 

Spirit

Lord of Altera
Legend
Pronouns
He/Him
PudsNull
PudsNull
Legend
The second one was edited after being denied, but quite literally involved katanas, ninjas and samurai, and I wish I was kidding.
The first, again, applications in groups with one culture just being smacked into the game wouldn't really make a cohesive story, and thus has to be introduced in game, or through Faelin
...My brain stopped for a minute there-- did I read that correctly?
 
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