Knife throwing

[Vesp_C2]

Hello there. I'll make this short and to the point.

Recently, I was asked to roll for a knife throw made by my character regarding whether the hilt or blade hit them, and so I'd like to clear up the misconceptions about knife throwing.

It is highly unlikely that a knife thrower would use the "spinning throw". It requires practice with a set knife, distance, force, etc., and thus is not fit for combat.

"Spinless" throws aren't as limited as most would think, and instead of explaining the science behind it, I'll simply leave these videos here. Whilst they seem to take themselves too seriously, they still manage to show that you can move and throw in different angles and expect to hit.

Kunais (still applies to generally all knives):

Spoiler

A man talking about knife throwing styles with demonstrations of actual combat-oriented throwing:

Spoiler

Same playlist has a video on how to throw knives.

As you can see, the likelihood of the hilt hitting the target is practically inexistent. There is more footage of this available if you look for it.

Roll for a successful or missed throw, not a hilt / blade contact.

Good day, evening, night or whichever time of the day you are currently reading this in within your dimension.

 

[Squidziod]

So are you contesting the notion that one could fail a knife throw, because the people who are good at it hardly ever do so? Interesting content, but I'm unsure of whether or not this is compiled for an argument or if it's just general information about throwing techniques and limitations.

 

[Vesp_C2]

I'm not contesting that one could fail a throw, but rather showing that it's very unlikely that the hilt would hit the target if the knife even reaches them. It is entirely possible for the knife to miss completely, however if properly thrown, it would still arrive blade first. If not, the throw itself would fail miserably and most likely not reach the target anyways.

Rolling for a succesful/missed throw is fine, rolling for a hilt/blade is not, at least to me. I've edited my post to clarify this.

 

[Teeke]

There are multiple ways to throw a knife. Some techniques require holding the blade, while others utilize the grip. The way you hold the knife is an important determinant in how the throw is performed.

First we have a "hammer grip" throw. This would be a style of knife throwing in which there is no spinning. Rather it is a straight forward throw, this would require a fair amount of practice - else you'll have weak/off target/spinny throws.

Next we have a "pinch grip." This is typically a light grip on the blade, this one does spin.

An interesting note about a knife that is thrown - typically you want a knife to spin 1 1/2 times before it reaches the target. The idea of a knife spinning super rapidly like a disc is a bit silly, and seeing this in movies is generally what leads people to think the grip will frequently slap the target.

 

[Vesp_C2]

Thanks for the explanation and images, Saelihn.

 

[BarbarianGaming]

@Gregor

 

[CthulhuPeople]

Knife throwing in General is kind if a dumb thing to do. Everytime you throw a knife at someone you're throwing away a potential hand weapon. Who knows when an extra knife might come in handy.

 

[Teeke]

Knife throwing in General is kind if a dumb thing to do. Everytime you throw a knife at someone you're throwing away a potential hand weapon. Who knows when an extra knife might come in handy.

Yes, I meant to bring this up as well. A thrown knife might hit your target once. Might. And then you are disarmed, while your opponent is very likely to have acquired a new knife. Knife throwing, pommel throwing, even Axe throwing are matters of last resort - a knife in your hand had multiple chances to hit someone. A pommel is better served screwed onto the bottom of your sword. An axe is terrifying in the hand.

However, if you are trying to be a show off or something like that - meaning NOT A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH , then throwing a weapon is more reasonable.


Keep in mind thrown weapons are not akin to an arrow being shot from a bow. Your thrown weapon will have no more force than you can impart, it has a pronounced arc to the trajectory, and is generally slow - someone who is practiced can slap a thrown knife away. I wouldn't try that with an Axe though.

 

[CthulhuPeople]

Yes, I meant to bring this up as well. A thrown knife might hit your target once. Might. And then you are disarmed, while your opponent is very likely to have acquired a new knife. Knife throwing, pommel throwing, even Axe throwing are matters of last resort - a knife in your hand had multiple chances to hit someone. A pommel is better served screwed onto the bottom of your sword. An axe is terrifying in the hand.

However, if you are trying to be a show off or something like that - meaning NOT A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH , then throwing a weapon is more reasonable.


Keep in mind thrown weapons are not akin to an arrow being shot from a bow. Your thrown weapon will have no more force than you can impart, it has a pronounced arc to the trajectory, and is generally slow - someone who is practiced can slap a thrown knife away. I wouldn't try that with an Axe though.

Really the only axe worth chucking at an enemy is the francisca, a Frankish axe that would bounce when it hit the ground, but that's only good in large groups and mainly used as a psychological tactic.
If you're dead set on tossing things, just get a javelin. Plus, if a knife somehow gets into a shield, no biggy. If a javelin gets through a shield, or multiple javelins, it makes the shield unwieldy and heavier.

 

[Teeke]

Really the only axe worth chucking at an enemy is the francisca, a Frankish axe that would bounce when it hit the ground, but that's only good in large groups and mainly used as a psychological tactic.
If you're dead set on tossing things, just get a javelin. Plus, if a knife somehow gets into a shield, no biggy. If a javelin gets through a shield, or multiple javelins, it makes the shield unwieldy and heavier.

The Frankish Axe or Francisca, roughly 2 feet long and weighing about a pound and a half.
A volley of these is pretty scary, a group of 21 men each throwing even 1 axe. But you could break that into 3 volleys of 7, which against a small group is pretty brutal. I would not want to be at the receiving end of this.
Once again we see the one and a half turns while in flight.
Benefits: Small, designed to be thrown

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The javelin. A stick with a pointy end. These types of weapons have been in existence a very long time, why? Because they work.
You need more room to throw a javelin, but it can fly further and impart a fair amount of force on impact. A group of these flying through the air is again pretty scary. At a time when most shields were wood, or wood with metal reinforcements, a javelin would poke right through that shield to the squishy man underneath - or as Cthullu has mentioned, at the very least, make the shield heavy, cumbersome, and unusable.
Typically 5(ish) feet to 7(ish) feet long. These also weigh just a few pounds, typically only about a pound or two.
Benefits: Good trajectory, good at imparting force.

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Still, most thrown weapons were used in combat - most often they were thrown for sport, because it's pretty fun to watch - and you don't have to worry about the OTHER group of people who are still armed and are charging at you.

 

[Jstar]

Honestly it depends on your characters fighting style. A knife thrown for distraction could decide the fate of a battle, after all.

 

[Vesp_C2]

Here's another video, clearly demonstrating the two throws mentioned by @Saelihn

Knives will require a larger mass to have any significant penetration, hence throwing knives are usually much larger / longer than what one would assume. Nevertheless, unless you manage to strike the throat, you won't kill your opponent with them, at least not instantly. Poison is your best bet if you wish to kill someone with a thrown knife, otherwise, one should aim to impair the target or cause bleeding, notably by hitting parts of the body with less muscle, such as the stomach / intestines.

They are as previously mentioned better as a distraction than a straight up killing weapon.

Yes, I meant to bring this up as well. A thrown knife might hit your target once. Might. And then you are disarmed, while your opponent is very likely to have acquired a new knife. Knife throwing, pommel throwing, even Axe throwing are matters of last resort - a knife in your hand had multiple chances to hit someone. A pommel is better served screwed onto the bottom of your sword. An axe is terrifying in the hand.

However, if you are trying to be a show off or something like that - meaning NOT A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH , then throwing a weapon is more reasonable.


Keep in mind thrown weapons are not akin to an arrow being shot from a bow. Your thrown weapon will have no more force than you can impart, it has a pronounced arc to the trajectory, and is generally slow - someone who is practiced can slap a thrown knife away. I wouldn't try that with an Axe though.

I'll however have to disagree that thrown knives are slow. This depends solely on the user, the distance and the knife used, as with all projectiles. At short distances, it can very well be nearly instantaneous to the human eye, or slow enough that one can sidestep it before it reaches them.

 

[Friosis]

Why not a rock? You couldn't throw a light knife and instantly kill somebody, that's simply preposterous, and you lose so much money everytime you throw a knife. I usually listen to lindybeige and he makes some good points here:

 

[Teeke]

Why not a rock? You couldn't throw a light knife and instantly kill somebody, that's simply preposterous, and you lose so much money everytime you throw a knife. I usually listen to lindybeige and he makes some good points here:

Ah the good ol' thrown rock. I favor this! Cheap, heavy, hard hitting!

 

[Teeke]

...I'll however have to disagree that thrown knives are slow. This depends solely on the user, the distance and the knife used, as with all projectiles. At short distances, it can very well be nearly instantaneous to the human eye, or slow enough that one can sidestep it before it reaches them.

I'm using a relative sense of slow. Compared to an arrow leaving a bow, the knife is very slow.
And absolutely in short distances you can do very little about that knife. Short distance = < 9 feet or roughly 3ish meters

 

[Kyle1322]

I still find Pilum the most effective thrown weapon to date, It is extremely light and armor piercing. [Chain and scale, NOT plate, though it can definitely make a small puncture] and the tip bends after thrown, rendering it unusable.