Laws in RP

[Tybalt]

Since when did we owe House Azerwind anything? All that should have been sorted out long before you were given power.

Buying back Twilight Falls. Since mokwar was pretty much forced to sell it. It wasn't a "we have to pay this back" more of a "it would be good of us to buy it back"

 

[camjay99]

Perhaps you could make a post for your jail/other detainment place. The post would include who is detained, where they are detained, and what guards watching them. Then people are doing jailbreaks would know where they should be and who should be on if they try a jailbreak. This way you can't just free somebody because no one is there(It is unlikely that a prisoner would be left without a guard). While this might introduce its own problems, it could certainly help with making sure detained people stay detained and are not unfairly set free. If some people were to in fact try a jailbreak without the guards on, then you would have proof that ic, there were in fact guards there and void the rp(With staff permission).

 

[Balatro]

Not sure what the case is now, but I remember there were some major issues about using NPCs as guards or whatever... I can understand why, some people would go overboard and use a small army to defend a single village... but in highly guarded citadels, you would expect guards to be around. The problem with what you're suggesting is that it isn't easy to justify the amount of guards in any particular place, someone will always say there are too many or too few. I'm guessing the case hasn't changed though, but perhaps someone can correct me on that?

As for mentioning guard shifts and who's in what jail-cell, that could lead to some serious metagaming... purely because people will use knowledge they don't already have... I'd rather do some reconnaissance personally, and have the owner OOCly know about it and tell me what details I'd know... but again some people like to pretend like such RPs never happened so they can justify complaining when a character does legitimately bust someone out.

I'm ranting now though, and going somewhat off-topic.

I think can meant which PC guard was on duty and when

 

[The Courier]

Last case of law and order bringers were the Knights in the Order of the Fallen Light [Or whatever we were]. I do distinctly remember being screamed at and berated in the Crossroads for arresting and removing a known torturer who had just got done torturing someone.

Basically, you can't have authority members on a server who's populace is full of anarchist teenagers.

 

[Tybalt]

Last case of law and order bringers were the Knights in the Order of the Fallen Light [Or whatever we were]. I do distinctly remember being screamed at and berated in the Crossroads for arresting and removing a known torturer who had just got done torturing someone.

Basically, you can't have authority members on a server who's populace is full of anarchist teenagers.

Yup. Although we sure try our best.
just arrest everyone who try's killing you for doing your job too

 

[Azur]

The problem with "keeping the law" so to speak, is that there is no real reason to listen to these people who enforce the law. The reason I say this is based on the fact that just because a group may have jurisdiction in one City/Town/Area, it does not (Or in this case should not) give them right to uphold the law anywhere else, especially not on Neutral Grounds or the Crossroads. Keeping the law in your own City is awesome, and means you're doing a good job; but the issue I think comes when people go out of their way to arrest people for crimes everywhere outside of their own land, which usually leads to people not enjoying it too much.

Last case of law and order bringers were the Knights in the Order of the Fallen Light [Or whatever we were]. I do distinctly remember being screamed at and berated in the Crossroads for arresting and removing a known torturer who had just got done torturing someone.

Basically, you can't have authority members on a server who's populace is full of anarchist teenagers.

Falling into what I just said, I imagine the "Knights in the Order of the Fallen Light"(Or whatever the name) were mainly a force created to uphold the law, without gaining the trust or support of the public before making this decision. I could be incorrect in my assumption, however!

Yup. Although we sure try our best.
just arrest everyone who try's killing you for doing your job too

Yes, that's gone well in the past. Have fun with that. :s

 

[Tybalt]

The problem with "keeping the law" so to speak, is that there is no real reason to listen to these people who enforce the law. The reason I say this is based on the fact that just because a group may have jurisdiction in one City/Town/Area, it does not (Or in this case should not) give them right to uphold the law anywhere else, especially not on Neutral Grounds or the Crossroads. Keeping the law in your own City is awesome, and means you're doing a good job; but the issue I think comes when people go out of their way to arrest people for crimes everywhere outside of their own land, which usually leads to people not enjoying it too much.


Falling into what I just said, I imagine the "Knights in the Order of the Fallen Light"(Or whatever the name) were mainly a force created to uphold the law, without gaining the trust or support of the public before making this decision. I could be incorrect in my assumption, however!

Yes, that's gone well in the past. Have fun with that. :s

Problem is, that certain groups/characters causes problems in one town, and flee for another. Alot of the time comes back for repetitive crimes, and then doing the same hit and run tactic.
And no matter how trustworthy you are, or how hard you try to be, the occasion @The Courier described happens. It's quite irritating, but you get over it eventually. And yes, it has worked in the past because I have done it over and over again. Just do your character's job. And don't let anyone stand in your way. (Try to at the best of your characters/organizations ability that is) And yes, it is worth it to punish the criminal through all this hassle. One death in your organization can actually be a big hit to your House. Because one death can be an entire 1/10th of your population.

 

[BrianAT16]

Sorry to derail this thread even further from its original purpose, but I feel I want to put in my two cents on the subject at hand.

Even though I am more often than not found playing "villainous" characters, I often find myself OOCly agreeing with the people who try to enforce laws such as @The Courier and @Tybalt .

It just seems to me that the people committing crimes often have the upper hand in nearly every encounter both ICly and OOCly. Which makes prosecuting crimes really hard. For one, in this world people more often than not seem to try to "stand up" for the "bad guys" in hopes of "redeeming them", kind of romanticizing criminals to an extent.. Then when someone comes along to punish said person for their crimes, people try to get in the way, as a few examples above have described. From what I understand, when someone is accused of murder or torturer you try to avoid them like the plague, not try to defend them from people who are actually trying to keep the world safe. I know these are IC reactions to people but some people don't seem to properly think through how their character would react to a known criminal.

Second there is the problem that those people who want to punish criminals for their actions are very limited in what they can do. They essentially have to kill the person (and have them return about two weeks later free as a bird) because according to OOC rules you can't keep a person in jail for X amount of time without continuous RP. Which means if a person killed a king they could be released in an OOC week if the person jailing them is busy or on different times as the criminal. I know this is about punishing the character and not the player but you're allowed to have alts for a reason. I suppose I just feel there should be a little bit more leeway towards people trying to enact justice. But then we get into the argument about "what defines something as justice" blah blah blah controversy. But, personally, I think long term jail/prison RP sounds amazing. (Which is kinda the point of this thread!)

Lastly, No matter what my character does or where they do it, I do not expect people to just stop hunting my character because they walk across some invisible border of authority anywhere. And those are my thoughts on the subject, some parts might seem messy, it is currently 3 AM and I am very tired. Probably wont post again but continue lurking and watching.

 

[SobekRa]

I would like to applaud everyone for having a decent conversation about this without slat or capsingNot a joke.I'd like to hear your guys opinions on these laws we've drafted.
LAWS

• Assault: Any action taken in aggression against a man of the warden's watch.
• Curfew: Activity without permit between dusk and dawn outdoors.
• Conspiracy: Actions taken with intent to harm House Zima'maloj or her interests.
• Consorting: Knowingly aiding or assisting a criminal in any way
• Misconduct: Theft, Drunkenness, Fighting or Raucousness
• Prohibition: Selling, Possessing, Transporting, or discussing items from the prohibited list
• Permit Violation: Preforming an Activity restricted to permit only
• Identify: Refusal or inability to present Identification papers to Man of the Warden's watch.
• Deviance: Unholy or Adulterous Behavior
• Trespassing: Activity in area without proper permit
• Murder: Attempt upon another citizen's Life

All Citizens and Visitors are given a book with these rules when they receive there Identification papers.

PROHIBITIONS

• Blades: More than 3lb or 6"
• Alchemy: Potions or items of any kind pertaining to
• Alcohol: Or similar influencing substances
• Censored Religions: Jishrim, Visage, Rahas, and Crusade are Censored
• Poison: Of any sort
• Armor: Beyond 10lb or made of metal
• Livestock: Includes pets
• Medicine: Substances must be documented by the Chancery
• Imports: Anything made beyond the lands of House Zima'Maloj

Breaking any of these Prohibitions Violates the Prohibition law. Depending on severity you can face multiple counts of Violation of see law.

Well, I had to design a few laws back during the time of Silver Kingdom and managed to acquire a bit of experience in this field. Taking a look at your laws you might want to consider following points:
- Torture: only the city guard etc. may have the right to torture; currently it is perfectly legal to torture people as long as the victims are not killed
- Kidnapping: Ironically, this point is often overlooked by the lawmakers; children are often easy targets since they cannot really resist a kidnapping attempt and technically it is still legal in Ravenmire
- Damage to property: IIRC, we had huge problems with arson back then. Might want to prohibit it and other forms of damage to other peoples property
- Slavery: I am not familiar with the laws of the Moor Elves in general and their stance on slavery. Depending on the attitude you might want to prohibit it


House Venezia (my house) had administrative laws as well. Most were purely for IC reasons, but some were deemed necessary for OOC reasons. Maybe you might want to use some of them:
- Registration of Business: new businesses had to register themselves and their traded goods at the City Council
- Unified City Design: changing the exterior of the houses without explicit permission is strictly prohibited; for each change a separate request has to be filed
- Regulation of Religion: building any shrines at home except to those gods officially worshipped requires permission; otherwise free worship is guaranteed
- Infection Management Regulations: every infected person had to be locked up at home and was forbidden from leaving until cured; free healthcare was provided by the City Council
- Declaration of Import: all ships docking at the port had to provide a list of transported goods and permit an inspection if deemed necessary
- Monopoly and Cartels Prevention Law: a group of traders were not allowed to manipulate prices to their advantage

Enforcing most laws is rather hard on HW and people have a tendency to step up for the underdog/criminal for some unexplainable reason. I think that law enforcers should have more rights to enforce the law within their area of influence. Even if it limits the fun of the criminal. Locking up characters for an indefinite amount of time if they violate certain laws should be legal.
Actually, I would also suggest that people who want to play criminals should write an additional application to be permitted criminal actions.

 

[Balatro]

Well, I had to design a few laws back during the time of Silver Kingdom and managed to acquire a bit of experience in this field. Taking a look at your laws you might want to consider following points:
- Torture: only the city guard etc. may have the right to torture; currently it is perfectly legal to torture people as long as the victims are not killed
- Kidnapping: Ironically, this point is often overlooked by the lawmakers; children are often easy targets since they cannot really resist a kidnapping attempt and technically it is still legal in Ravenmire
- Damage to property: IIRC, we had huge problems with arson back then. Might want to prohibit it and other forms of damage to other peoples property
- Slavery: I am not familiar with the laws of the Moor Elves in general and their stance on slavery. Depending on the attitude you might want to prohibit it


House Venezia (my house) had administrative laws as well. Most were purely for IC reasons, but some were deemed necessary for OOC reasons. Maybe you might want to use some of them:
- Registration of Business: new businesses had to register themselves and their traded goods at the City Council
- Unified City Design: changing the exterior of the houses without explicit permission is strictly prohibited; for each change a separate request has to be filed
- Regulation of Religion: building any shrines at home except to those gods officially worshipped requires permission; otherwise free worship is guaranteed
- Infection Management Regulations: every infected person had to be locked up at home and was forbidden from leaving until cured; free healthcare was provided by the City Council
- Declaration of Import: all ships docking at the port had to provide a list of transported goods and permit an inspection if deemed necessary
- Monopoly and Cartels Prevention Law: a group of traders were not allowed to manipulate prices to their advantage

Enforcing most laws is rather hard on HW and people have a tendency to step up for the underdog/criminal for some unexplainable reason. I think that law enforcers should have more rights to enforce the law within their area of influence. Even if it limits the fun of the criminal. Locking up characters for an indefinite amount of time if they violate certain laws should be legal.
Actually, I would also suggest that people who want to play criminals should write an additional application to be permitted criminal actions.

I like those laws a lot! I'll have to change them to make them make sense. But thats what I wanted to see, The cultural differences in different rp groups laws. thanks!