Mercenaries and "I Don't Consent"

[The Courier]

I've always wondered about this as I play a mercenary, Orvar Sif Sigurd, and although I haven't met this problem yet, I can see it becoming one. How does consent work for hired killers? People spend money, in my case I only accept OOC money, to be used for the killing of another character. However, once the contract is beginning to take place, the party that is being attacked can simply say 'I don't consent to death!' This makes the person who hired the mercenary now out of whatever amount of money they paid for the mercenary and the merc is stuck in an awkward position.

I'm asking not only staff, but also the player base as it effects them mainly. What do you think of mercenaries being in the grey area of consent? If proof of payment and an actual contract can be shown, does it allow them to bypass the consent barrier or should mercenaries be forced to follow along the consent rules at the expense of the contractor?

 

[Friosis]

Consent rules generally go above all else simply because if we start making exceptions it will invalidate region ratings.

Once mercs can bypass consent, you could kill someone in a peaceful region by just paying a merc to do it for example. Or ignore the specific region rules such as requring region owners consent to violence in their town by oocly paying a merc.

Sadly it isn't a perfect system, but you can already be screwed out of the money oocly through silly ways in rp, so I don't think it should be an issue if the rules can do the same.

 

[Cukie1]

Consent rules generally go above all else simply because if we start making exceptions it will invalidate region ratings.

Once mercs can bypass consent, you could kill someone in a peaceful region by just paying a merc to do it for example. Or ignore the specific region rules such as requring region owners consent to violence in their town by oocly paying a merc.

Sadly it isn't a perfect system, but you can already be screwed out of the money oocly through silly ways in rp, so I don't think it should be an issue if the rules can do the same.

Region consent always applies, no matter who. That's not the issue, it's personal consent. As far as I'm aware, if the person has caused some form of harm to the other person (the one that ordered the contract) then they cannot void consent, as that's a consequential act. Note, it's only for that person, so the mercenary has to be connected to that person.

You cannot avoid consequence through OOC means.

Edit: also note that those that have committed crime cannot stay in peaceful regions, btw

 

[Friosis]

Region consent always applies, no matter who. That's not the issue, it's personal consent. As far as I'm aware, if the person has caused some form of harm to the other person (the one that ordered the contract) then they cannot void consent, as that's a consequential act. Note, it's only for that person, so the mercenary has to be connected to that person.

You cannot avoid consequence through OOC means.

Personal consent is tied to region rules is my point. The question of what is and isn't considered proper "consequences" is both subjective and on a case by case basis. I presume this thread is asking about the topic in general rather than case by case.

 

[Niko]

To quote Naelwyn, "You start shit you get shit". If the person whom the contract is made out to did something horrific enough to warrant a punishment of death, then he or she should consent to the possible outcome of death. Now, if the potential victim has not ruffled a single feather or committed a crime but that crime does not warrant being punishable by death then that should be enough ground to say that he or she does not consent to death. The perpetrator of a crime also cannot flee into a peaceful region as that is against the rules and is classified as consent abuse.

 

[Balatro]

It might be prudent for all partys to talk OOCly before any money is exchanged. thats at least how the old Thieve's guild did our stuff, made things a lot cleaner.

 

[Cukie1]

Personal consent is tied to region rules is my point. The question of what is and isn't considered proper "consequences" is both subjective and on a case by case basis. I presume this thread is asking about the topic in general rather than case by case.

Have you committed crime against the individual? Have you tortured the individual? Have you killed the individual? Have you caused harm to the point of incapacitation? Mercenaries are not always hired for kills, but its still something to ask when one is after you. If that doesn't apply, you Can deny consent. Otherwise, you cannot hide behind peaceful regions and deny.

Even mental torture is banned from peaceful regions. Harrasment, stalking, and things of this caliber that causes the victim of these crimes grief is not allowed in those regions, so the region consent only applies if the moderate region owner isn't present at all and needs to be notified. This is why using that to bypass consent rules is against the rules.

At least, that's how I usually see it applied.

 

[Jazzper]

Have you committed crime against the individual? Have you tortured the individual? Have you killed the individual? Have you caused harm to the point of incapacitation? Mercenaries are not always hired for kills, but its still something to ask when one is after you. If that doesn't apply, you Can deny consent. Otherwise, you cannot hide behind peaceful regions and deny.

Even mental torture is banned from peaceful regions. Harrasment, stalking, and things of this caliber that causes the victim of these crimes grief is not allowed in those regions, so the region consent only applies if the moderate region owner isn't present at all and needs to be notified. This is why using that to bypass consent rules is against the rules.

At least, that's how I usually see it applied.

I agree with Cukie1
If you harm someone you consent to whatever punishment the region owner/the one hiring the mercenaries ICly states.

I've also seen some reversed cases of this:
-Person A tries to murder Person B
-Person C knocks Person A out without causing any serious harm and sees to it that Person A gets medical treatment
-Friends of Person A then attack person C stating that he consented to everything by preventing Person A from killing Person B
-The friends of Person A then refuse any bodily harm worse than a bruise while they are trying to severely harm Person C but (s)he fights back

This is something I've witnessed and I found it even worse than the usual "Person A tried to kill Person B but then Person A refuses to consent to the region's listed punishments"

 

[NIAH]

Have you committed crime against the individual? Have you tortured the individual? Have you killed the individual? Have you caused harm to the point of incapacitation? Mercenaries are not always hired for kills, but its still something to ask when one is after you. If that doesn't apply, you Can deny consent. Otherwise, you cannot hide behind peaceful regions and deny.

Even mental torture is banned from peaceful regions. Harrasment, stalking, and things of this caliber that causes the victim of these crimes grief is not allowed in those regions, so the region consent only applies if the moderate region owner isn't present at all and needs to be notified. This is why using that to bypass consent rules is against the rules.

At least, that's how I usually see it applied.

(I don't think the peaceful region has ever been that strict. As far as I'm aware, it's has only barred physical altercation and theft. Not verbal or mental harassment. Just a wee sidenote.)

 

[Cukie1]

(I don't think the peaceful region has ever been that strict. As far as I'm aware, it's has only barred physical altercation and theft. Not verbal or mental harassment. Just a wee sidenote.)

Was taking into consideration a personal experience I brought up to the region owner. My character was once stalked and harassed by a cult following, and I reported that OOCly, since I wasn't comfortable with it at the time. Then people were banned from the peaceful region due to that. Perhaps that could have been a one time thing. I dunno.

 

[CyberChaosV2]

To quote Naelwyn, "You start shit you get shit". If the person whom the contract is made out to did something horrific enough to warrant a punishment of death, then he or she should consent to the possible outcome of death. Now, if the potential victim has not ruffled a single feather or committed a crime but that crime does not warrant being punishable by death then that should be enough ground to say that he or she does not consent to death. The perpetrator of a crime also cannot flee into a peaceful region as that is against the rules and is classified as consent abuse.

actually, they can flee into a peaceful region, but people are allowed to, for that individual, bypass peaceful region rules only regarding that person. I remember reading that somewhere, but am unsure if that's still the case, or if I misinterpretted something. I have tried to look for the statement in question, but have come up with nothing.

 

[Cukie1]

actually, they can flee into a peaceful region, but people are allowed to, for that individual, bypass peaceful region rules only regarding that person. I remember reading that somewhere, but am unsure if that's still the case, or if I misinterpretted something. I have tried to look for the statement in question, but have come up with nothing.

http://hollowworld.co.uk/threads/region-census-and-rp-classification.29543/

And with this I likely retreat to my hobbit hole for a while.

 

[CyberChaosV2]

http://hollowworld.co.uk/threads/region-census-and-rp-classification.29543/

And with this I likely retreat to my hobbit hole for a while.

much thanks!

EDIT: though, back on topic of what the thread's discussing, I believe that, as the contract with the mercenary is being made, it should be discussed OOC. Example!

Sif is being hired by Azure to bring Roy back, as he suddenly has a steel fetish. Roy doesn't want to go as he's creeped out by this. We'd discuss in a private convo what exactly we would like to happen, and if we can find a compromise.

Nother example

Sif is being hired by Urist to kill Roy, as Urist doesn't want competition in the steel smithing business. But I don't want Roy dead, so we do some talking, and it's found that I just don't consent to wanting Roy dead, but am okay with injuries. So Sif and Urist come to an agreement to injure Roy in an attempt to keep his business down, at least for a while. It is then up to me whether or not Roy is able to recover from this based on the medical attention he receives.

 

[Warwolf]

This just reminds me the issues there were with the Assassin's Guild back in the old days.

Get given a target- target has to consent, and a lot of the time people just wont. So we went out of business as we couldn't kill people. :/
Also you have to ask them OOCly beforehand and that can throw off their normal nature as they start being more cautious as if they know there's an assassin on their tail. (I know this is meta, but back then it always seemed hard to prove / punish in this situation.)

But consent rules are also needed for the same reason as stopping someone going on a random killing spree.

 

[The Courier]

I'll use a current issue I've been debating over a while. I'm at current hired to kill someone, I won't name them off due to fear of meta and not wanting the drama storm of 'There's no reason for this!' to ensue. The owner of the region at current does not care that I was hired, they will let me operate as my character would. I'm now just needing to worry about consent from the person I'm hired to kill, as I don't enjoy ripping people off but I also don't enjoy voiding RP that has lead up to this moment.

 

[ptiber]

Just my two cents here: accept contracts only for killing people that have actually given their consent for being attacked.
Have the person hiring you ask its target first, and if no consent is given, don't accept the contract?

 

[CyberChaosV2]

I'll use a current issue I've been debating over a while. I'm at current hired to kill someone, I won't name them off due to fear of meta and not wanting the drama storm of 'There's no reason for this!' to ensue. The owner of the region at current does not care that I was hired, they will let me operate as my character would. I'm now just needing to worry about consent from the person I'm hired to kill, as I don't enjoy ripping people off but I also don't enjoy voiding RP that has lead up to this moment.

Just my two cents here: accept contracts only for killing people that have actually given their consent for being attacked.
Have the person hiring you ask its target first, and if no consent is given, don't accept the contract?

actually, that's perfect. Since the person you'll be attacking doesn't know who's coming after them, so they either have to be paranoid of everyone, or accept someone's coming for them.

 

[The Courier]

actually, that's perfect. Since the person you'll be attacking doesn't know who's coming after them, so they either have to be paranoid of everyone, or accept someone's coming for them.

That's promoting metagaming however. As no one would ever go "Hey! I hate you! I just hired a mercenary to kill you!" As Kharn has said earlier in the thread, his own guild had been shut down due to metagaming and the lack of consent by the party that is needing to be killed.

 

[CyberChaosV2]

That's promoting metagaming however. As no one would ever go "Hey! I hate you! I just hired a mercenary to kill you!" As Kharn has said earlier in the thread, his own guild had been shut down due to metagaming and the lack of consent by the party that is needing to be killed.

it's metagaming if the person who's told acts on it yes, but that's where you'll just have to trust that they don't. There's a lot of times where people could potentially metagame by using the forums and using information on character profiles, if they meta knowing a mercenary is coming to kill them ESPECIALLY if they know who it is, then it's easy to prove that they're meta-ing right?

 

[Rygan]

If you've done something bad enough to make someone go and hire another person to kill you staff are probably going to end up telling you you have to consent anyways. If it's a huge overreaction then I think the mercenary needs to suck it up and let it go.