More for Enchanting and Alchemy

aidoninja

Lord of Altera
Legend
aidenninja
aidenninja
Legend
#1
Hi, not sure who agrees with me but I believe that the Enchanting and Alchemy could be built upon massively.

Enchanting: Enable multiple people to work together to create stronger enchantments (I know this cannot be done in game, but we are an RP server)
A way of enhancing the enchantment (such as adding Runes to an item to enable the enchantment to be slightly more predictable) So enchantment effects can be guided a bit more/can be more predictable.
MORE ENCHANTMENTS! I understand that the enchanting in game will be unaffected, but what do you guys think about there being more enchantments, such as a weapon that glows in the dark, a shield that reflects physical attacks etc (not saying these ones, just examples).

Alchemy:
Honestly? I think there should just be more effects from potions, more ways of the potion taking affect with an example being treating wood in a solution to give it an effect (fireproof and such).
Not a lot more to say about this, any other thoughts on this would be welcomed!
 

aidoninja

Lord of Altera
Legend
aidenninja
aidenninja
Legend
#2
Further more, integrating these arts with other skills, such as Smiting, Carpentry, so on and so forth.

Example:
Alchemy and smiting: using Alchemy to change the composition of a metal to give it different traits or to make a new alloy (keeping in mind that Alchemy isn't/shouldn't be just about potions and such).

Enchanting and Smiting: Working the Enchantment into the metal itself as apposed to the end result would take more from the enchanter, but would keep the elemental in the tool/metal for longer, so an earth elemental in the metal before making a sword would make the sword overall harder to break (better than just enchanting the blade when its already been made but takes more time and energy)

Alchemy and Carpentry: Treating the wood in a solution to give it different properties, such as fire resistance or to harden the wood even more (not to the standards of metal, but could make a door twice as hard to break).

Enchanting and Carpentry: by carving runes into the wood, you would be able to weave an enchantment into it, such as an enchantment to recognize someone based off of their blood so they cannot open the door without doing something (or just destroying the door)


What do you guys think?
 

Luam

Legend of Altera
Hero
SirLiam1124
SirLiam1124
Hero
#3
Don't have much of an opinion on Enchanting. But Alchemy recently and purposely just took a nerf due to people not being able to RP out potions correctly, and more specifically, healing potions were just a replacement for people to actually RP out any kind of injuries but slapping some bread in someone's mouth then using a healing potion.
 

NIAH

Secretly Elz
Retired Staff
#4
Hi, not sure who agrees with me but I believe that the Enchanting and Alchemy could be built upon massively.

Enchanting: Enable multiple people to work together to create stronger enchantments (I know this cannot be done in game, but we are an RP server)
A way of enhancing the enchantment (such as adding Runes to an item to enable the enchantment to be slightly more predictable) So enchantment effects can be guided a bit more/can be more predictable.
MORE ENCHANTMENTS! I understand that the enchanting in game will be unaffected, but what do you guys think about there being more enchantments, such as a weapon that glows in the dark, a shield that reflects physical attacks etc (not saying these ones, just examples).

Alchemy:
Honestly? I think there should just be more effects from potions, more ways of the potion taking affect with an example being treating wood in a solution to give it an effect (fireproof and such).
Not a lot more to say about this, any other thoughts on this would be welcomed!
The thing with Enchanting is that it is meant to be simple and it is meant to be underpowered because it is accessible to the server at large. More enchantments, more powerful enchantments, and/or expanding the system gets very complicated for a system that is not actively monitored. We have had issues in the past where it was unmonitored and lore got shifted, misunderstood, etc because of a lack of uniform oversight. Because of it this, it has usually been the server's stance, and mine when I was Lore Coordinator, that Enchanting should not be made MORE complicated when there isn't someone to oversee it OOCly. It is, at its base, intended to be the RP representation of what Mojang implemented and nothing more.

An additional reason for this is because there are the magic disciplines that ARE monitored and ARE moderated to make sure everything is followed and no abuse of lore happens. Animancy, for example, is able to create enchanted items. So it would not make sense to change/beef up/alter Enchanting when there is a magic school able to do that. It is preferred that those who are able to have wild and wacky effects are trusted to be able to emote and handle it properly. Those who achieve magic are those who are competent RPers, with a clear quality writing style, able to understand and uphold the lore, and can be trusted not to powergame with their increased abilities. So adding more Enchantments and more abilities to a public and unmoderated system would become quite unbalanced and it would be very difficult for players to emote things correctly without the proper supervision.

tl;dr- Enchanting is fine and simple as it should be. More powerful and varied enchantments remain locked within a magic school that requires a teacher, as it should be.
 

aidoninja

Lord of Altera
Legend
aidenninja
aidenninja
Legend
#5
Don't have much of an opinion on Enchanting. But Alchemy recently and purposely just took a nerf due to people not being able to RP out potions correctly, and more specifically, healing potions were just a replacement for people to actually RP out any kind of injuries but slapping some bread in someone's mouth then using a healing potion.
yeah, I had seen that it was changed but i think that there is more that could be done with then, not even on a character level but on a World Level. So like the doors i mentioned above, poisons, new materials that can only be made using alchemy, that kinda thing.
 

aidoninja

Lord of Altera
Legend
aidenninja
aidenninja
Legend
#6
The thing with Enchanting is that it is meant to be simple and it is meant to be underpowered because it is accessible to the server at large. More enchantments, more powerful enchantments, and/or expanding the system gets very complicated for a system that is not actively monitored. We have had issues in the past where it was unmonitored and lore got shifted, misunderstood, etc because of a lack of uniform oversight. Because of it this, it has usually been the server's stance, and mine when I was Lore Coordinator, that Enchanting should not be made MORE complicated when there isn't someone to oversee it OOCly. It is, at its base, intended to be the RP representation of what Mojang implemented and nothing more.

An additional reason for this is because there are the magic disciplines that ARE monitored and ARE moderated to make sure everything is followed and no abuse of lore happens. Animancy, for example, is able to create enchanted items. So it would not make sense to change/beef up/alter Enchanting when there is a magic school able to do that. It is preferred that those who are able to have wild and wacky effects are trusted to be able to emote and handle it properly. Those who achieve magic are those who are competent RPers, with a clear quality writing style, able to understand and uphold the lore, and can be trusted not to powergame with their increased abilities. So adding more Enchantments and more abilities to a public and unmoderated system would become quite unbalanced and it would be very difficult for players to emote things correctly without the proper supervision.

tl;dr- Enchanting is fine and simple as it should be. More powerful and varied enchantments remain locked within a magic school that requires a teacher, as it should be.
I understand what you are saying about power gaming being a problem for it due to it being un-monitored, but what is the point on a system that can do some thing worse than another system and has no real benefits other than not needing a teacher (and I'm pretty sure you still need a teacher for enchanting, it just doesn't have as many risks)

Like I said, I feel like it needs more versatility (that Animancy doesn't touch upon preferably) otherwise I feel like it would just be a waste of time to even have it as an option (this is my opinion, and i understand where you are coming form but i feel like it could have been handled differently but I'm not staff and don't know what has actually been discussed about it or anything like that, I just know I feel like it could be developed so much more)

And honestly what has made me think about this is just that I've got ideas for my own Medieval world high fantasy book/idea thing.I was just looking at the stuff on the server to get some inspiration (like how you guys do magic, races and stuff, and how I think it could be done, but i wouldn't be doing it for others to use so wouldn't have to worry about balance to the same extent)
 

NIAH

Secretly Elz
Retired Staff
#7
I understand what you are saying about power gaming being a problem for it due to it being un-monitored, but what is the point on a system that can do some thing worse than another system and has no real benefits other than not needing a teacher (and I'm pretty sure you still need a teacher for enchanting, it just doesn't have as many risks)

Like I said, I feel like it needs more versatility (that Animancy doesn't touch upon preferably) otherwise I feel like it would just be a waste of time to even have it as an option (this is my opinion, and i understand where you are coming form but i feel like it could have been handled differently but I'm not staff and don't know what has actually been discussed about it or anything like that, I just know I feel like it could be developed so much more)

And honestly what has made me think about this is just that I've got ideas for my own Medieval world high fantasy book/idea thing.I was just looking at the stuff on the server to get some inspiration (like how you guys do magic, races and stuff, and how I think it could be done, but i wouldn't be doing it for others to use so wouldn't have to worry about balance to the same extent)
You do not need a teacher, no.
The construction of an enchantment table comes as a form of instinct to all Alterans imparted by the Immortal Kings, who granted such as a means for their creations to co-inhabit productively.
Everyone innately knows how to make an enchantment table, and you can teach yourself by reasonable experimentation.
 

aidoninja

Lord of Altera
Legend
aidenninja
aidenninja
Legend
#8
You do not need a teacher, no.

Everyone innately knows how to make an enchantment table, and you can teach yourself by reasonable experimentation.
ah, apologizes, I thought that just meant we could make the table, not knowing how to use it.
 

Electric

Lord of Altera
Patron
electricwisekid
electricwisekid
Patron
#9
This sounds interesting, but from I get the feeling that they want to keep magic as king. Enchanting and alchemy are kept very basic in comparison because of this.
 

Heie

Lord of Altera
#10
ah, apologizes, I thought that just meant we could make the table, not knowing how to use it.
My main characters profession is enchanting and I think it is currently in a fairly good place. Certainly better than it was. Also while it is mechanicaly easy for a char to start, there is still plenty you can learn and research ic. I'd write more but I'm on my phone and have to go.
 

aidoninja

Lord of Altera
Legend
aidenninja
aidenninja
Legend
#11
My main characters profession is enchanting and I think it is currently in a fairly good place. Certainly better than it was. Also while it is mechanicaly easy for a char to start, there is still plenty you can learn and research ic. I'd write more but I'm on my phone and have to go.
Ok, when you get chance can you PM me with more? I wasn't aware we could do any research for Enchanting and was under the impression that you could only do research into Magic. Thanks :)
 

NIAH

Secretly Elz
Retired Staff
#12
Ok, when you get chance can you PM me with more? I wasn't aware we could do any research for Enchanting and was under the impression that you could only do research into Magic. Thanks :)
https://hollowworld.co.uk/threads/lore-ic-research.34181/
You just make a convo with Solus about what you're doing and she'll tell you the result, if it is something that needs a convo. A lot of things are just trial and error on your own part.
 
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Heie

Lord of Altera
#13
Ok, when you get chance can you PM me with more? I wasn't aware we could do any research for Enchanting and was under the impression that you could only do research into Magic. Thanks :)
I can. Also when I mentioned research, I ment stuff like attacking enchanted protect armor with various weapons to see how much better it faired from unenchanted. Anyways I can shoot you a PM or you can approach my char ic for lessons or questions
 

Scardrac

o7
Retired Staff
#14
I agree that enchanting right now is laughable and could have used a rework which I vouched for when I was staff but I left before I made anything but I had ideas but nothing other than that. Oh well. Right now with the climate of the server whether or not enchanting was on par with magic or weaker than it is now, it really wouldn't make much of a difference.
 

Cymic_

Lord of Altera
#15
alchemy should be a crutch for the unblessed and unsparked in my opinion. I don't have anything to contribute in that direction. But i believe it should be a minor public ""magic"", of sorts
 

Electric

Lord of Altera
Patron
electricwisekid
electricwisekid
Patron
#16
alchemy should be a crutch for the unblessed and unsparked in my opinion. I don't have anything to contribute in that direction. But i believe it should be a minor public ""magic"", of sorts
That's what is currently is, yeah
 

Fronslin

Lord of Altera
Mystic
Fronslin
Fronslin
Mystic
#17
As someone who dabbles in the enchanting system, I can honestly say that I would hate if it could more complicated, What's in place Could theoretically be used to accomplish some pretty neat stuff if implemented properly With the update coming I think it should be revisioned for what could and could not be used ICly Because in the past crossbows were not actually something we had props for. And there are a handful of enchants coming in future updates that would be worth looking into. Even if we would need a prop for some magic spell (frostwalker boots were previously not considered IC unless someone had cast a spell that let them do that if I remember the implication)


Whatever the decision, Bare in mind that With the system you must have knowledge on how each enchant works, and one of the problems with the system and enchanting in general is that if you sell enchanted gear People need to know what to emote about it.

It's something that will IMO probably take a while to decide upon but We should be patient.
there's lot of stuff to mull through.

For starters, for those of you who don't already know, Enchanting is split into four elements. So all of the new enchants would need to be filtered through this system
So there's probably not much of the new content that can be used beside putting unbreaking on something new.
 
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