On the topic of self hurt

[CyberChaosV2]

(I understand this is a sensitive topic, im just a bit miffed right now about certain things, and I actually don't like seeing this in rp)

Due to recent events that have occurred, I've witnessed characters that seem to try to mutilate themselves in a sort of emo-punk way in order to reflect how sad they are, or are trying to get attention...
THIS IS NOT OKAY
We get it, your character is feeling sad and feels like the world is against them, but it takes a different mindset entirely to begin inflicting pain upon yourself and continue doing so. Okay, maybe you cut your palm, but then a normal person would be like "WTF am I doing? jessus crust I've cut myself, that's not okay." and yes, I know not everyone is normal...
But those same people that aren't entirely normal may also be our friends on this server. I once had an idea to have Roy have to cut his arm off to have an obstacle in his life (this was in the first month of playing when I didn't know jack-diddly) after not being able to think about how to go about this, I had come up with the idea that he'd slide off his anvil while sleeping and his arm would fall into the fire... after talking to a few friends about this, they talked me out of it by explaining that it wouldn't help my character at all other than make him the equivalent of a mopey zoo lion. jump ahead about a year, and I'm now seeing characters (sometimes graphically, which I've asked them not to do) cutting themselves, hurting themselves by punching stone, or doing other stupid crap, sometimes in the presence of one of my online friends who has had a problem with this (I will give no names, I ain't no snitch)

Long story short, TL;DR I request the banning of self hurt caused by self pity, depression, self loathing, or self punishment.
Cutting yourself to get noticed at the bar? Void it immediately.
chewing through your wrist to free yourself from a shackle so you might escape your captors who want you dead? That's fine, so long as you emote it properly.
Character clawing at their arm to punish themselves for something they did wrong? Get out of here.
It's just not very fitting in a setting like the one we've got where, normally, if someone was that depressed, they usually didn't last very long due to a lack of drive to live, causing them to die of starvation since they didn't work for anything.

 

[Lavilethorn]

See, here's the thing. Mental help was not even recognized to have existed during the medieval ages. Those with some level of depression or mental illness had to suck it up or tie a rock around their ankles. However, other than a historical stand point, you're also missing the psychological aspect of self harm. In the most extreme cases, it is a way to "escape" the negative thoughts created by the depressed brain. You cannot just think yourself out of depression as many people think when someone says they have depression. A depressed brain works at a much lower level than a healthy brain. Look it up. There are plenty of interesting images on it.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I don't agree with self harm, but you're going to see characters that have been developed to have depressive thoughts acting like lemmings if this is banned. To someone that has extreme depression, cutting is not a means of getting attention, it is a means of escaping the negative emotions their brains spew out at them without control.

However, an alternative solution to not banning the thing as a whole would be to message the person and let them know "Hey, this makes me uncomfortable, can you tone it down or RP it elsewhere?" Banning the thing as a whole is banning a level of character development, and before someone starts telling me how it is "not good character development", I am gonna stop you right there. There is no such thing as bad character development. Character development is character development. It merely means that a different color of paint is put on the blank canvas that is your character. You may not have wanted that color on your canvas, so you have to find other colors that work with that one. That is what makes a well developed character.

 

[CyberChaosV2]

See, here's the thing. Mental help was not even recognized to have existed during the medieval ages. Those with some level of depression or mental illness had to suck it up or tie a rock around their ankles. However, other than a historical stand point, you're also missing the psychological aspect of self harm. In the most extreme cases, it is a way to "escape" the negative thoughts created by the depressed brain. You cannot just think yourself out of depression as many people think when someone says they have depression. A depressed brain works at a much lower level than a healthy brain. Look it up. There are plenty of interesting images on it.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I don't agree with self harm, but you're going to see characters that have been developed to have depressive thoughts acting like lemmings if this is banned. To someone that has extreme depression, cutting is not a means of getting attention, it is a means of escaping the negative emotions their brains spew out at them without control.

However, an alternative solution to not banning the thing as a whole would be to message the person and let them know "Hey, this makes me uncomfortable, can you tone it down or RP it elsewhere?" Banning the thing as a whole is banning a level of character development, and before someone starts telling me how it is "not good character development", I am gonna stop you right there. There is no such thing as bad character development. Character development is character development. It merely means that a different color of paint is put on the blank canvas that is your character. You may not have wanted that color on your canvas, so you have to find other colors that work with that one. That is what makes a well developed character.

I have informed people of this, only to have them continue to do so, I reason that it should be banned as there may be people on the server who have real life issues with this and would rather not deal with it, plus I have not seen it done right in the many times i've seen it done... it's kinda like rape rp in stories and the like, you need to be very careful how you do it, otherwise it's just not going to turn out right and is that not also banned?

 

[Solus]

I can give a more elaborate response 8 hours from now- But self harm, suicide, falls into the torture category of innapropriate roleplay as players behind the screen are effected. Grief can overcome anyone into self harming and yes, it's tough getting through it. But this server is not the place to act out self harming or suicidal roleplay. There might be other places more suited for this, but matter of fact is- you're role playing with technical strangers over the Internet and we don't know what others have gone through. It's best to reflect and tone down to vague mentions of self harm or suicidal tendencies (I play a grey lady character, and I do admit this topic comes up a lot...), or not roleplay it at all. Especially if someone mentions to stop. 'Know your audience'.

I can talk to rest of staff and seeing in getting the two words specifically added to the innapropriate guide to explain for newer players.

 

[NIAH]

I suspect I might be a minority on this, but I don't agree with the banning of suicidal roleplay. I have seen amazing character development from characters who had lost everything and we're talked out of it. It's can also be a way to end your characters arc if you are looking to get rid of the character in a way that makes sense for them. I'm not sure if this is asking for a total ban on suicide, or just RPing it out, but I personally don't like the idea of banning it. I remember one era of RP where my character made a friend because she helped another cope with the loss of someone and keep him grounded to prevent a reckless outcome. It doesn't feel right that the RP would be considered inappropriate or banned.

I certainly respect that the self harm RP might be an uncomfortable trigger. But I wouldn't consider self harm and punching the wall the same, as you noted. If it falls into that category and it's banned, it feels pedantic to say, "Your roleplay is inappropriate because you punched a wall."

If it's banned, then it's banned. But I personally don't agree with it. I would, instead, say that you should have an open communication with the people you're roleplaying with. You should ask the other person to stop or alter, if it is something you find to be too much for you personally.

 

[Naelwyn]

If this is banned I'm going to press for all violent roleplay of any kind to be banned under the same precedent, including slavery, extortion, mental maniupulation, and coercion, because all those things exceptionally bother me on a personal level.

I refuse to accept such a wide swath of RP as a result of one person's distaste for it. It's not something that affects you, it's not a heinous crime committed upon others, and if you don't like it, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from telling the person performing that RP so.

What's next? Everybody having to use the handicap button to open doors because pushing them open is ablist!?

Completely refusing to confront the notion of completely cutting out a portion of /possible emotions/ a character can portray as a negative thing is so tremendously insipid and cowardly.

We live in a world where characters have every bloody right to be depressed. Most just recently lost their /entire homeland/.

I can give a more elaborate response 8 hours from now- But self harm, suicide, falls into the torture category of innapropriate roleplay as players behind the screen are effected. Grief can overcome anyone into self harming and yes, it's tough getting through it. But this server is not the place to act out self harming or suicidal roleplay. There might be other places more suited for this, but matter of fact is- you're role playing with technical strangers over the Internet and we don't know what others have gone through. It's best to reflect and tone down to vague mentions of self harm or suicidal tendencies (I play a grey lady character, and I do admit this topic comes up a lot...), or not roleplay it at all. Especially if someone mentions to stop. 'Know your audience'.

I can talk to rest of staff and seeing in getting the two words specifically added to the innapropriate guide to explain for newer players.

This statement is so insipid and fails to stand for anything. Falls into the torture category of inappropriate roleplay? You insult so many people so gracelessly that I cannot espouse an appropriate response.

 

[Solus]

Like I wrote earlier, I'll relay this is a touchy topic and not something to roleplay out- i.e., harming yourself in a place where players are not comfortable with. If you tone it down, fine. If you're vague about it, even better. Be mature about it. We won't ban it unless we get a lot of complaints about it. Just know who you're role playing with.

 

[Naelwyn]

Like I wrote earlier, I'll relay this is a touchy topic and not something to roleplay out- i.e., harming yourself in a place where players are not comfortable with. If you tone it down, fine. If you're vague about it, even better. Be mature about it. We won't ban it unless we get a lot of complaints about it. Just know who you're role playing with.

Do you understand the precedent this sets?

You are tactitly acknowledging that anybody can get anything banned on this server by complaining enough.

 

[The Courier]

Shit, I can't play Sif then.

 

[Solus]

Do you understand the precedent this sets?

You are tactitly acknowledging that anybody can get anything banned on this server by complaining enough.

... Are you saying if players are truly uncomfortable with a borderline controversial topic, they shouldn't be listened to in order to change for the betterment of this server?

It would be rude to think that this is precedent for every single thing..

Shit, I can't play Sif then.

You're fine, man.

 

[Naelwyn]

... Are you saying if players are truly uncomfortable with a borderline controversial topic, they shouldn't be listened to in order to change for the betterment of this server?.

YES! It's called /Artistic Integrity/!

You stand by your vision of what things should be.

 

[Bartooliinii]

If this is banned I'm going to press for all violent roleplay of any kind to be banned under the same precedent, including slavery, extortion, mental maniupulation, and coercion, because all those things exceptionally bother me on a personal level.

I refuse to accept such a wide swath of RP as a result of one person's distaste for it. It's not something that affects you, it's not a heinous crime committed upon others, and if you don't like it, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from telling the person performing that RP so.

Keep on contradicting yourself and spitting your rage all over the forums and one day I will respect you

 

[Smurf]

Like Niah said, amazing RP has come out of this kind of roleplay. If you are uncomfortable, be a big kid and hike on out of there. I'm not going to pretend like most of Ciri's scars aren't self-inflicted, because they are. I'm sorry that people get 'triggered' (yes, I am saying triggered. SJWs need to calm their butts these days) but it is the internet, and it is easy to click the big red x on the minecraft tab if you are uncomfortable during an RP.

Now- if you are extremely graphic, that's another subject. But if you emote something not-so-graphic to suggest a character's inner turmoil, that should be 100% fine. Censorship in this case has gotten ridiculous. As Naelwyn said.. If you are going to ban "self hurt caused by self pity, depression, self loathing, or self punishment", you had better ban emotional hurt caused by other characters, sadness, anger, any form of combat RP or violence, etc. Because it might trigger people. ):

(I understand this is a sensitive topic, im just a bit miffed right now about certain things, and I actually don't like seeing this in rp)

Due to recent events that have occurred, I've witnessed characters that seem to try to mutilate themselves in a sort of emo-punk way in order to reflect how sad they are, or are trying to get attention...
THIS IS NOT OKAY
We get it, your character is feeling sad and feels like the world is against them, but it takes a different mindset entirely to begin inflicting pain upon yourself and continue doing so. Okay, maybe you cut your palm, but then a normal person would be like "WTF am I doing? jessus crust I've cut myself, that's not okay." and yes, I know not everyone is normal...
But those same people that aren't entirely normal may also be our friends on this server. I once had an idea to have Roy have to cut his arm off to have an obstacle in his life (this was in the first month of playing when I didn't know jack-diddly) after not being able to think about how to go about this, I had come up with the idea that he'd slide off his anvil while sleeping and his arm would fall into the fire... after talking to a few friends about this, they talked me out of it by explaining that it wouldn't help my character at all other than make him the equivalent of a mopey zoo lion. jump ahead about a year, and I'm now seeing characters (sometimes graphically, which I've asked them not to do) cutting themselves, hurting themselves by punching stone, or doing other stupid crap, sometimes in the presence of one of my online friends who has had a problem with this (I will give no names, I ain't no snitch)

Long story short, TL;DR I request the banning of self hurt caused by self pity, depression, self loathing, or self punishment.
Cutting yourself to get noticed at the bar? Void it immediately.
chewing through your wrist to free yourself from a shackle so you might escape your captors who want you dead? That's fine, so long as you emote it properly.
Character clawing at their arm to punish themselves for something they did wrong? Get out of here.
It's just not very fitting in a setting like the one we've got where, normally, if someone was that depressed, they usually didn't last very long due to a lack of drive to live, causing them to die of starvation since they didn't work for anything.

Some advice: if you don't like seeing something in RP, click the red x. You're out of there in seconds and if it was so graphic that it broke the pre-existing rules, tell a staff. Easy. I've personally struggled with depression and suicide on a very real level, and I'm also not 'everyone,' but getting triggered by a roleplay is a bit silly. Sure, if someone is roleplaying rape, torture, etc- that is against the rules. They shouldn't be.
But saying 'boo-hoo [just an example here-- I'll use Ciri, who is really fucked up in the head.] Ciri hates herself and she is depressed and she sometimes considers ending it all for the sake of an amazing character arc that ends in a boom!' That's... Childish. If you don't like the way that someone RPs, it is easy as hell to avoid them. I do it, too.
But by censoring a good portion of RP that takes place on the server that is non-graphic because 'mi feelers might git hurt' is stupid.

TL;DR: If you don't like it, or you are triggered, talk to a staff. They can help you avoid that type of RP. I know Solus is great OOC and she is a very understanding and kind person.

Keep on contradicting yourself and spitting your rage all over the forums and one day I will respect you

And shit, Naelwyn might not be completely right to you, but if the point of your post is to spit 19 words of rudeness back that's just sad. So can you stop???? Or should i say ur triggering me so u shuld be ban now :,(

 

[Naelwyn]

Keep on contradicting yourself and spitting your rage all over the forums and one day I will respect you

Continue contributing stuff like that to discussions and I'll never need your respect in the first place.

 

[Bartooliinii]

Continue contributing stuff like that to discussions and I'll never need your respect in the first place.

You ruin the fun for so many people with your aggressive narcissism you can't even start to imagine!

 

[Smurf]

solus im being triggered pls ban

 

[Naelwyn]

You ruin the fun for so many people with your aggressive narcissism you can't even start to imagine!

Do you have something relevant to the topic to contribute or are you only here to spew your own, hateful, bias onto the board?

I'm at least here arguing for something important to me. What are /you/ doing?

 

[Immerael]

Like I wrote earlier, I'll relay this is a touchy topic and not something to roleplay out- i.e., harming yourself in a place where players are not comfortable with. If you tone it down, fine. If you're vague about it, even better. Be mature about it. We won't ban it unless we get a lot of complaints about it. Just know who you're role playing with.

I personally would be all for a totally (actual) mature server of you need to be 16/18+ to even join up and allow all things. But we have kids, sorry 14 year olds ye be kids, and kids are a bit more fragile and Some take things too far and people don't take into account their audience.

Super detailed descriptions of self harm can be bad if your doing it to a person who is a actively struggling with the issues. Same with Suicide, well done and poorly done can both have negative impacts. That said they can be wonderful story telling devices too if maturely handled and everyone present is down with it.

That said as Solus said she isn't banning it outright in clarification. I'd be fine with super detailed shit so long as everyone there is fine with it. It's when someone posts "hey guys this is making me uncomfortable can we tone it down?" Then I think yeah we should have enough respect of our fellow RPers that we can chill. We don't have to break characther or not do the things. Just be ...mature about it?

If someone keeps inserting themselves into situations where they know that is going come up and repeatedly asking you to change gears for them that is another issue entirely imo.

 

[Jazzper]

I think that if you are graphically describing your char cutting himself/herself and multiple people kindly ask you to stop, you should just tone it down a peg, cease it or take it somewhere else.

I do understand that people want to do RP likr this because of emotional roleplay, charscter development, "artistic integrity" and so on, but, like Immerael said, it's not a 100% mature-only server so we do have to think about the 14 year olds that could see 10 graphic sentences of someone cutting themself.

Everyone chill with it? Fine by me.
Someone kindly requests it be taken down a notch? Please tone it down a notch.

Also:
If it's like *Person A is in a building and sees RP that he/she isn't happy with and asks "Could you please tone it down a bit? I'm not comfortable with it."* then why not just be mature and indeed tone it down.

I think most people would gladly tone it down a notch if you are really uncomfortable with it and have a reason you can't just walk away.

 

[The Courier]

From the way that I see it, loss and struggle put onto characters can make them develop in many different ways. You could either become a calloused cold individual who no longer holds life in a high regard [Sif], you could become depressed and absorbed into self misery like other individuals which evolves into it's own arc of problems and lovely development. What I'm seeing as a problem here is Why are you taking a MC RP as though it was happening to you? I am not blind to the idea of self-inserts and what not, but holy crap people. Realize you're playing a damn game! If you find yourself more invested into the life of your characters/the story of it than your own life and to the point that it actually starts to bother you, take a God damn step back. Reevaluate yourself.

Now ya might be like "But Courier! What about people who get upset due to some PTSD or if they've personally struggled with it?!" You're correct, randomly selected citizen, it might suck for them. Wanna know the best part about us being in a MC RP that people are taking too seriously? You can remove yourself from the area by the WASD keys. Not enjoying the RP of what's happening? Have your character become disgusted and remove yourself. Trigger averted, you can keep your 'safe space'.

I absolutely despise any RP being removed or restricted in all honesty, but that's not what I'm arguing for at the moment so don't red herring or straw man my damn argument. This RP is the basic principal of crippling depression. Either you drink yourself into a coma, do enough drugs to out snort Charlie Sheen, or people resort to a way to focus on things that are not the feelings or emotions they have at current. Which equals the pain of cutting, breaking, or even just expressing it through anger and punching the hell outta things. I've had Sif punch the stone walls at Hellsridge during the Rebellion due to stress levels and extreme lack of patience he had developed with. I shouldn't be restricted from it due to that being someones God damn trigger. Instead of pandering towards those who are likely the minority, unless this server is full of cutters of which I had no idea haha, why not keep it so that way the majority can perform that RP?