[Review] Endgame.

kaza125

Lord of Altera
#1
I would like to start this off by saying this was an incredible event, props to everyone involved, because this was the best event I have been too and it has rekindled my enjoyment in the server.

Personally some of you know that Novus was the town of Arcturus, a house I was apart which support Harteth. So seeing all of these people attacking in the city was a very provoking start to the event for my personally, but once the battle emerged inside I was honestly having the best time in an event I have had.

What the amazing thing about it was that while people were fighting the wolves and such, people were having their own duels which you could tell from the rp that they have being building up such a duel, it was incredible to watch, but once I got myself involved with a duel with someone I had continually rped with it was great.

Honestly this event if I can conclude in an phrase was like an episode 9 in Game of Thrones.

I think the most enjoyable part once Harateth is seemly dead, is what comes after.
 

Gaby

Lord of Altera
#7
I just realized.

when Harateth died, and the sun was blotted out, only to appear again...

...

that was a solar eclipse.

MIIIIIIIIIIICHCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!
 

Axex

Lord of House Hawklight
Retired Council Member
#10
I'll start this off by saying I'm thankful to everyone that worked hard to make the campaign a reality, that said, my review is going to be the almost polar opposite of Kaza's.

I found the event, the three hours I stuck around for, to be extremely repetitive, and boring, within those three hours there was limited development in rp, and this is something that I feel needs to be looked at, as huge event timeframes can't become the norm, especially when plenty of people have other things to do besides spend 5 hours at one event.

Furthermore, I very much felt like someone watching a play, particularly between Michcat and Naelwyn, wherein my actions were preordained, and it felt especially drone like to be told exactly what to chant, where to stand, how to act.

The event itself could have been much more player involved, perhaps we have to solve puzzles, fight mobs, explore a dungeon to complete it, instead of observe a summoning which we truly know nothing of how it was completed. I felt that the 'plan' we spoke of in Hound Ru, an event which came down to staff dominated roleplay yet again, really was just left in the dust as Michcat and Naelwyn conducted us to move along in specific ways. Not everyone has to be the hero that slays a God, but you can certainly be the person who fends off the monsters attacking them. The vast majority of people ended up standing around while a few people actually acted.

On the weapons themselves, rather than explain them in the roleplay channel, their powers were explained in the weapons channel, which for me, was extremely immersion breaking, again I felt I was extremely limited in how I was supposed to act.

Harateth himself in my opinion was a very 2d character, he appeared a generic villian and I just didn't feel like his true character, even corrupted was properly encapsulated. In the end he just seemed like a characture of a demon.

Therefore, I believe the structure of events, particualarly the amount of player involvement, and player driven conflict/actions need to be looked at, and changed to better represent a player driven roleplay server, rather than one that right now feels utterly controlled by a very specific part of the staff team.
 
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Faelin

The Court Jester
Retired Staff
#11
Due to personal technical difficulties preventing my moving more than a few blocks at a time for much of the event after the summoning, I was (for the most part) confined to shuffling about after everyone else and praying that I'd catch up with chat whenever it so kindly decided to unfreeze.

Thanks, Minecraft.

However, it did give me some insight into what other folks were doing and not doing throughout the event, so hopefully I can use that to lay some qualms to rest. Please be aware I'm not baring my teeth and beating you down - this isn't in any way, shape, or form an "official" or "staff" response. I'd just like to offer you an alternate perspective on a few of the things mentioned.

Let us begin!
I found the event, the three hours I stuck around for, to be extremely repetitive, and boring, within those three hours there was limited development in rp, and this is something that I feel needs to be looked at, as huge event timeframes can't become the norm, especially when plenty of people have other things to do besides spend 5 hours at one event.
Time frames may well be something to be considered, as it is admittedly a very long time to run a large-scale RP. Chat gets confusing, those not acting as DMs (who, in my eyes, did an incredible job) are liable to lose track of what's going on, and in general it is very high maintenance to run such a concentrated event for so long.

Trouble is, in order for things to more swiftly and still run according to the variable outcomes, people have to do stuff, risk stuff, try stuff, and... not a great deal was being tried. There were lots of weapons left over, there were lots of people hovering. I speak from experience both of myself and others when I say that people who happen to be on the staff team are often very, very uneasy about taking action in events for fear of being persecuted for "running the show", when most of the time (as is the case in this campaign), we have no more idea than the players of what is happening and how to respond.

This leads me nicely onto this:
Furthermore, I very much felt like someone watching a play, particularly between Michcat and Naelwyn, wherein my actions were preordained, and it felt especially drone like to be told exactly what to chant, where to stand, how to act.
Actions are never, ever preordained in these events, hence there being a DM, in order to respond to what people do according to the numerous potential plotlines and highly possible deviations from such. As for Naelwyn, I'd like to clarify a few things. Firstly, if nobody else is going to act, it makes sense for certain characters to do so. The number of times certain staff members have gone out of their way to ensure their character isn't involved more than absolutely necessary for things to stay canon is... really a bit upsetting. There's only so long inaction can be sustained purely to give others a chance, and if nobody else acts, what choice is there?

Now, the chanting. It wasn't terribly difficult through research in-character to discover that those proclamations, en masse, were an ideal way to begin weakening Harateth. I know this because in the first few weeks of the campaign, my character began finding people, finding information and trying to piece together what the Gods are and how they "work". The fact it was Naelwyn leading it, to me, makes very little difference; it could have been anyone who tried.
The event itself could have been much more player involved, perhaps we have to solve puzzles, fight mobs, explore a dungeon to complete it, instead of observe a summoning which we truly know nothing of how it was completed.
"Three Harateths appear, we have two weapons to inflict serious harm, and several more to sting. Throw in some horrifying Corrupted powers, and off we go!"

In my own view, I was quite pleasantly surprised by the surprising nature of the puzzles involved. PvE was actually heavily criticised in the last event, so I would assume this was more trying to find a balance to suit people who were previously dissatisfied. Again with the summoning, information was very, very much available in-character.
I felt that the 'plan' we spoke of in Hound Ru, an event which came down to staff dominated roleplay yet again, really was just left in the dust as Michcat and Naelwyn conducted us to move along in specific ways.
Again, please don't take this as a stab at what you are saying, I'd like to think this is clarification more than anything else.

Let me start by saying I knew nothing of this campaign OOC. Literally zero. Character did research, saw successes, saw failures, learned things. A number of others did the same, staff and players alike. Through a series of letters and meetings between people who had joined their resources in-character, information was pooled, and the foundations of the plan set out.

We eventually assembled a small force of personal, in-character allies behind the scenes (*tips hat* you were one of 'em) so that our characters could be sure of support when the time came to announce the plan. Not all were aware of each other, not all were aware of everything - some things were deliberately kept under locks - not because any of those involved were meanies who like hiding things from people, but for reasons specific to roleplay. (To be read light-heartedly, in case silly writing style is being aggressive.)

When someone inevitably called an emergency meeting of Alterans at Hound-Ru, it didn't work because it was "staff-run"; it simply wasn't. It worked because we were ready, had resources, and had been preparing the inevitability for some time.

As for being "told what to do", again, it comes down to initiative. It had got to the point at which Naelwyn specifically could no longer legitimately keep his character away from the effort, and (once more) all of Naelwyn's knowledge and subsequent behaviour in this event was entirely and legitimately in-character. And, frankly, if no-one else is going to act, I fail to see why others shouldn't if it makes sense for their character to do so.

Now, let's say, if Arken had been staff, indubitably he'd have been met with the same response. But the real fact of the matter is that nobody but Mich and the sub-DMs knew any of the campaign backmatter.

You, me, everyone had a chance equal to Naelwyn's to take a similar role. And I am constantly aggrieved that people should feel guilty to do so even when nobody else shows any inclination to.

It's by no means a case of putting oneself in the limelight; it's a case of waiting as long as is legitimately possible to stay away from it, hoping upon hope that someone else is going to take initiative before it becomes inevitable that the character act as they would and should under the circumstances.

On to this:
Not everyone has to be the hero that slays a God, but you can certainly be the person who fends off the monsters attacking them. The vast majority of people ended up standing around while a few people actually acted.
Here, I agree with your point that there were a lot of people standing around, though I'd be interested to know firstly why you think this was and secondly what you think could be done about it. (Gah, insert genuine tone here, not intending to seem sardonic.)

Heck, I was one of the folk standing around, though I have my damnable toaster laptop to thank for that.

Although, with the sheer volume of people at the event the evident inaction actually really shocked me. I was... honestly expecting utter pandemonium as everyone swarmed to do everything all at once. Weirdly, people decided to be cautious and gauge the situation first.

Again, unless the DMs literally had kicked every individual up the backside until people start acting, there's not a lot can be done here. The whole effort of the event was to overwhelm, so I was vastly, vastly surprised when lots of people held back and didn't seize any chance they could get to batter everything that came at them.

Next!
On the weapons themselves, rather than explain them in the roleplay channel, their powers were explained in the weapons channel, which for me, was extremely immersion breaking, again I felt I was extremely limited in how I was supposed to act.
I believe, though I could be wrong, that this was explained a good few times in roleplay, and that the weapons channel (while, I agree, likely not an ideal medium for roleplaying) was solely intended to keep track of goings on for the DMs. Perhaps too daring a system for an MC-based roleplaying game on such a scale, but I'm glad, at least, it's been tried.
Harateth himself in my opinion was a very 2d character, he appeared a generic villian and I just didn't feel like his true character, even corrupted was properly encapsulated. In the end he just seemed like a characture of a demon.
Mrah, this bit's pretty much just my view: cackle-y business aside, I was rather pleased with Harateth as a character. As I've said, the appearance of multiple projections or illusions of such was something that I had not at all been anticipating, which made for a welcome change of pace.

You'll recall in other events, there's been a prevalence of antagonists going with the good old "lock 'em in a small area and torment them a bit" tactic. This, while certainly very intensive in-character, gets a bit old hat, so I was glad things were spiced up with a relatively open field.

In a sort of mish-mash conclusion of my own opinion of the campaign: for me, it's been really enjoyable due to events demanding communication and cooperation with lots of people my character may otherwise have had very dry or limited contact with. It's enabled lots of minor but very specific developments for my character, and the formation of some very interesting relationships with others. In all, loaded with RP opportunities.

Now, Axex, back to the somewhat meandering point/not-point! This is paaaartially a response, partially me being a lazy sod and stealing your template to evaluate certain aspects of the event and surrounding campaign myself. As to the sections I had specifically wished to reply to, I think I've covered everything, and I'm more than happy to take a look at replies. I'd rather things were addressed from all viewpoints rather than left unspoken.
 

Ced

Mountain Bum
Retired Staff
#13
I'll start this off by saying I'm thankful to everyone that worked hard to make the campaign a reality, that said, my review is going to be the almost polar opposite of Kaza's.

I found the event, the three hours I stuck around for, to be extremely repetitive, and boring, within those three hours there was limited development in rp, and this is something that I feel needs to be looked at, as huge event timeframes can't become the norm, especially when plenty of people have other things to do besides spend 5 hours at one event.

Furthermore, I very much felt like someone watching a play, particularly between Michcat and Naelwyn, wherein my actions were preordained, and it felt especially drone like to be told exactly what to chant, where to stand, how to act.

The event itself could have been much more player involved, perhaps we have to solve puzzles, fight mobs, explore a dungeon to complete it, instead of observe a summoning which we truly know nothing of how it was completed. I felt that the 'plan' we spoke of in Hound Ru, an event which came down to staff dominated roleplay yet again, really was just left in the dust as Michcat and Naelwyn conducted us to move along in specific ways. Not everyone has to be the hero that slays a God, but you can certainly be the person who fends off the monsters attacking them. The vast majority of people ended up standing around while a few people actually acted.

On the weapons themselves, rather than explain them in the roleplay channel, their powers were explained in the weapons channel, which for me, was extremely immersion breaking, again I felt I was extremely limited in how I was supposed to act.

Harateth himself in my opinion was a very 2d character, he appeared a generic villian and I just didn't feel like his true character, even corrupted was properly encapsulated. In the end he just seemed like a characture of a demon.

Therefore, I believe the structure of events, particualarly the amount of player involvement, and player driven conflict/actions need to be looked at, and changed to better represent a player driven roleplay server, rather than one that right now feels utterly controlled by a very specific part of the staff team.
Adding on to this- It seemed to me that, in the entire 4.5 hour event, the only puzzle we needed to work out was "Which Harateth is real".

While I may be entirely mistaken, it seemed to me that the only thing that was intended to happen was to weaken Harateth with repetitive strikes and then finish him off with help from a God. While this is all well and good, I feel like it should have taken less than 4 hours (both players and organisers at fault here, of course).

I perfectly understand the difficulty of creating immersion and fun for such a large audience, and the split Harateth's were a wonderful, if obvious way of dealing with this. But, @Faelin, this isn't an aspect of his personality- What Axex means is that Harateth was an incredibly cliché evil villain type guy, with no apparent depth. There was nothing compelling, or interesting about his aims or goals, or how he acted. Again, something I didn't particularly mind. There are a few people who say they enjoyed the event, so it may have worked perfectly as intended :p
 

Goldengem25

The Kingdom Crusher
#14
I'd say that overall it was a mixed bags with its combination of high points and low points, but as Axex said, the ,mount of effort put into this was fantastic and appreciated :p

First off, I'll say the good points. The aspects of the event in which I was actually engaged in RP and felt like I was doing something was fantastic, I.E duels with the corrupted like Elmond and landing the first blow on Harateth. It did feel really fun, especially considering these were players emoting this. I felt there was a good build up to the event and when it progressed, it did progress. The climax was the best though when Chalkan was restrained after going after Scardrac and there was a collective atmosphere of that it was over. There was also a lot of RP opportunities surrounding it as Cherry said above, Harateth's whispers and the climax RP was mega, and Chalkan's now heading down a gradual decline into becoming the Kingdom Crusher again. Plu

However, it did have its downfalls. The Corrupted were instantly revived or woken up if unconscious, which at the time did get me a bit flustered and got me thinking what's the point. There was a lot of standing about during it, too. However the worst aspect of all for me was the fact the Corrupted are still corrupted and there was no real outcome. People're telling me that Harateth isn't dead, which is basically a massive top lel to our efforts. I was hoping that this would actually be the end of the campaign. It's been a good one, but the Corrupted still having powers? It got old a while back and it does affect RP. The Corrupted are evil, but they've got the Hydra principle of getting stronger the more you decapitate them. This mounts up heavily to the point that a Corrupted was telling me they invincible and anything I did would fail at that point. I literally said that I wouldn't take that. The moment the Corrupted get uncorrupted or there's a definitive ending will be the moment I'll be more happy looking back at the campaign, because as a leader of an RP organization the campaign is taking all the spotlight for people who want to do stuff :p
 
C

Cubey

Guest
#15
Oh yeah I love how Harateth is using illusion, one splits into three and confuses people by finding which one is real! :)
 

Axex

Lord of House Hawklight
Retired Council Member
#19
I think the only way to deal with the sheer scale of the events, which has been ramping up again, which is fantastic as it means the server is regaining some traction, is to focus larger events such as this in a similar way to how the second version of Castle Corbenic was run. You made teams of a small amount, and had a go clearing the castle after scheduling a time. I know this isn't as feasible with one time events, but perhaps if certain players/staff were given the role of leading a specific group to complete a challenge/task spot of roleplay which eventually led to the event being completed I think it would be fantastic. Taking what was done in this event, ie; the projections as a way to manage a larger group, more could be done to make the smaller group events challenging and exciting.

Also, on the subject of people standing about, and this likely only applies to a small percentage of us, I find it hard to be bothered acting, when it will have to little impact. Sure I went in and had a swing at Harateth, but really that was just to say I'd used my axe before I went back to sleep. Harateth and this campaign weren't particularly relatable to me as the corruption didn't really threaten anything Axex cared about, and seeing as how Harateth, who I served for two years in rp, long before many of the current lore managers took over, wasn't anything like/didn't really embrace the principals he should have, even as corrupted, I was never fully interested. Again, it's important to note here that this could well be limited to me, so that's fine and is my negative attitude, nothing to do with the event.
 

Pirapple

Lord of Altera
#20
My problem with the whole super weapons thing... was that I couldn't find a time to use it... after I saw that the normal axe did nothing to realharateth, I didn't see a use in the weapon. And when I had a chance to use it, it was when everyone had gone to the cathedral and I could fight were corrupted. I was about to use my axe when time stopped (apparently) and Harateth was banished or whatever.