Star Wars - The Last Jedi

[Jazzper]

Ppl still be complaining about there not being sound for a part of that scene where kamikaze happens

 

[I am Wake]

[Warning: Spoilers ahead in this opinion]

I am not sure what to think of the Last Jedi.
Partly because I liked it-- the rather straight-forward story, good effects and funny birds... I am quite easily amused! But I enjoy Star Wars lore more than anything... and from what I understand, Luke Skywalker grew in maturity in age to become a better Jedi, much like Yoda was. While he wasn't quite there in the early films, he must've realized in the moment fighting Darth Vader what being a Jedi was about.

Annoyingly, though, Rey is not a Jedi. She does not know what balance is, what the Buddhist-like religion of The Jedi is (yet, she may realize in the near future once she reads the books) nor what Luke was trying to teach her about the Dark Side. Rey is the biggest deus-ex machina I've ever seen, ever since she instantly knew how to use the Force in the previous film.
Luke said he will not be the last Jedi to Kylo Ren, but... he is
Unless Rey changes in the future to give up attachments and emotion, I don't think she will be a Jedi ever.

It saddens me greatly that so much effort was brilliantly put into Rogue One, with a deep understanding of the lore- mixing it to become amazing- only for the new films to be introducing new lore that makes very little sense in comparison to the already existing Star Wars universe.
And I know Disney can do Star Wars lore properly... as I thoroughly enjoy Star Wars: Rebels.


I thought it was a good film. But I do not think I can watch it with it's lore in mind.

 

[BoredBrit]

i just watched it a second time.













still pretty cool.

 

[Sankera]

Rey is the biggest deus-ex machina I've ever seen, ever since she instantly knew how to use the Force in the previous film.

>Slave Anakin using the force to win a podrace, being the literal virgin birth

 

[BoredBrit]

can we recognise the kid at the end used the force on the broom please


i was so happy

 

[Sankera]

can we recognise the kid at the end used the force on the broom please


i was so happy

yes that was good

 

[Arken]

can we recognise the kid at the end used the force on the broom please


i was so happy

I hated this part, way too Harry Potter. Tonight's my tenth viewing and I'm gonna vomit up all my thoughts tonight, because my opinion on the film has changed a lot over the past five watchings.

 

[I am Wake]

i just watched it a second time.
still pretty cool.

Oh aye, no disagreement!
It was bloody amazing-- especially the last battle ^_^

>Slave Anakin using the force to win a podrace, being the literal virgin birth

Fair point xD
That film was my childhood. Had it on video tape.

 

[BoredBrit]

I hated this part, way too Harry Potter. Tonight's my tenth viewing and I'm gonna vomit up all my thoughts tonight, because my opinion on the film has changed a lot over the past five watchings.

i liked that we finally got to see anakin 2.0

i can't wait to hear his opinions on sand

 

[LeftwardElk]

 

[Lannis]

being the literal virgin birth

Have you heard the tragedy of darth plagueis the wise? It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life…

 

[Hai_Paladin]

Jedi can also be plural. Perhaps "they" are the last Jedi? Or maybe they find one of the last 'true' Jedi, considering that while Luke was trained by Obi-Wan and Yoda, he wasn't 'classically trained.'

Regardless *grumble grumble* about the red title.

I think the Porgs might be what the Last Jedi(s) is referring to, but could be wrong.

 

[CyberChaosV2]

>Slave Anakin using the force to win a podrace, being the literal virgin birth

so, fun stuff... I've got friends who I don't like discussing anything star wars with because they studied the expanded universe religiously (Almost literally) and they hate the last jedi for a variety of reasons (I never saw it myself, I just dont like how Rey is just a character with powers and skills, not really any development for her) some valid, some I'm not sure if they're valid or just diehard fan reasons:

Spoiler

1: Superman leia in space, it does certainly make sense given that there was actually lore about leia having force training (Don't remember by who, likely luke) after everything went down in movie #6, but given no context, and the fact it was only mentioned in a single book out of all the star wars lore out there, I feel like they could've done better, especially since Leia's gonna die offscreen now due to Carrie Fisher's passing (I think it would've been better if Kylo actually killed her and keeps dealing with the regret throughout the whole movie, would've been more character building in that Snoke kinda got what he wanted, but not really.)
2: Phasma fight lasting all of the time it takes to eat 1 piece of popcorn.
3: The entire Finn and Rose subplot.
4: Rose's attempted character arc to make a sympathetic character which you like only to kill her off and force emotional reactions from you.
5: Rey being able to speak to Chewbacca, but Luke can't in all the time he's known Han and the wookie? Really? He'd never have learned even a bit of it? Seems legit.
6: Commander "I wont tell you anything until I tell you something." Keeping plans secret to ensure they go off fine is one thing... micromanaging every bit of it to keep everyone as dark as possible is just terrible.
7: Rey takes to the force REALLY fast... doing calculations: Luke was only able to sense and kinda guide his torpedoes in movie #4, still accomplishing what other pilots could do, just making the odds better. In Movie #5 after obvious effort, he pulls his lightsaber towards himself in the wampa (I think that's how it's spelled?) cave, this tooke a couple tries and was after a bit of teaching from Obi wan. Lastly, movie #6, he FINALLY uses a jedi mind trick, after about 5 years of training with Yoda, one of the most powerful jedi... Rey sees Kylo Ren do a jedi mind trick and is like "LOL I saw it once on tv."
8: Rey can apparently fly the millenium Falcon good enough to impress Han Solo, who's been driving the damn thing his whole life, and it's stated it was old in the original movies, the damn thing's gotta be near ancient in the new movies, so it should likely be very different than ships Rey is used to.
9: Luke's "See ya round kid." missed a perfect opportunity to bring back the whole "If you strike me down now, I shall come back stronger than you imagine." and THEN had him phase to nothingness... WHY?!

that all aside, to explain your point, San, Annie-boy was just sensing stuff as he did podracing, he's stated in canon to just be a damn good driver on top of being force sensitive... theeeeen there's the fact his dad was a force being, though they never say that directly in the movies, Anakin's mother does note how she was basically Virgin Mary'd in that she just woke up pregnant one day. definitely no alien race that can do that, only other explanation is the force, some think it was Darth Plagueis, others think it's actually Palpatine (Given that Palpatine was Darth Plagueis' apprentice, wouldnt be surprising if he learned the life giving technique)
so yeah, not as much force complexity as you'd think, and anakin has direct heritage to being a powerful force wielder... from what I hear with the movie

Spoiler

Rey's parents were just muggles

 

[Sankera]

so, fun stuff... I've got friends who I don't like discussing anything star wars with because they studied the expanded universe religiously (Almost literally) and they hate the last jedi for a variety of reasons (I never saw it myself, I just dont like how Rey is just a character with powers and skills, not really any development for her) some valid, some I'm not sure if they're valid or just diehard fan reasons:

Spoiler

1: Superman leia in space, it does certainly make sense given that there was actually lore about leia having force training (Don't remember by who, likely luke) after everything went down in movie #6, but given no context, and the fact it was only mentioned in a single book out of all the star wars lore out there, I feel like they could've done better, especially since Leia's gonna die offscreen now due to Carrie Fisher's passing (I think it would've been better if Kylo actually killed her and keeps dealing with the regret throughout the whole movie, would've been more character building in that Snoke kinda got what he wanted, but not really.)
2: Phasma fight lasting all of the time it takes to eat 1 piece of popcorn.
3: The entire Finn and Rose subplot.
4: Rose's attempted character arc to make a sympathetic character which you like only to kill her off and force emotional reactions from you.
5: Rey being able to speak to Chewbacca, but Luke can't in all the time he's known Han and the wookie? Really? He'd never have learned even a bit of it? Seems legit.
6: Commander "I wont tell you anything until I tell you something." Keeping plans secret to ensure they go off fine is one thing... micromanaging every bit of it to keep everyone as dark as possible is just terrible.
7: Rey takes to the force REALLY fast... doing calculations: Luke was only able to sense and kinda guide his torpedoes in movie #4, still accomplishing what other pilots could do, just making the odds better. In Movie #5 after obvious effort, he pulls his lightsaber towards himself in the wampa (I think that's how it's spelled?) cave, this tooke a couple tries and was after a bit of teaching from Obi wan. Lastly, movie #6, he FINALLY uses a jedi mind trick, after about 5 years of training with Yoda, one of the most powerful jedi... Rey sees Kylo Ren do a jedi mind trick and is like "LOL I saw it once on tv."
8: Rey can apparently fly the millenium Falcon good enough to impress Han Solo, who's been driving the damn thing his whole life, and it's stated it was old in the original movies, the damn thing's gotta be near ancient in the new movies, so it should likely be very different than ships Rey is used to.
9: Luke's "See ya round kid." missed a perfect opportunity to bring back the whole "If you strike me down now, I shall come back stronger than you imagine." and THEN had him phase to nothingness... WHY?!

that all aside, to explain your point, San, Annie-boy was just sensing stuff as he did podracing, he's stated in canon to just be a damn good driver on top of being force sensitive... theeeeen there's the fact his dad was a force being, though they never say that directly in the movies, Anakin's mother does note how she was basically Virgin Mary'd in that she just woke up pregnant one day. definitely no alien race that can do that, only other explanation is the force, some think it was Darth Plagueis, others think it's actually Palpatine (Given that Palpatine was Darth Plagueis' apprentice, wouldnt be surprising if he learned the life giving technique)
so yeah, not as much force complexity as you'd think, and anakin has direct heritage to being a powerful force wielder... from what I hear with the movie

Spoiler

Rey's parents were just muggles

Spoiler

1. I'm sure she has had more force training than we know, just that Disney doesn't wanna release too much stuff beforehand so we didn't see it coming. Just like how they kept us mostly in the dark about what Luke was doing between ANH and TFA. So now that that is out of the way they can start releasing more content about what happened during that time to our old lovable cast.
2. That's valid and I'm on that point with ya boo, her book set her up for so much more and then they did her like this.
3. That's also- yeah, in the initial draft it was gonna be Finn and Poe, but Rian didn't want that because he thought it'd be boring. Aka Rian is a pussy and doesn't dare to put 2 male characters in a healthy and loving relationship, the fans and the actors want it. Give it to us Disney.
4. Valid
5. I don't remember this fully but I guess she just somehow assumed he didn't understand or something and did one of those dumb translations without remembering that the other person also speaks that language.
6. Yeah, it was- tbh if Finn and Poe went to Canto Bite it would not have needed her in the film, which I can live with. General Ackbar should have been the one to do it if anyone, like his death was like an offhand mention in an interview I think, the man deserved better.
7. Got a valid point on the flying part. However, Luke was KO, cold as balls, hanging upside down, didn't know where the fuck he was, Rey, on the other hand, was just in some random snow forest, not KO a few seconds before, aware of what was happening. Also babe, where are you pulling these 5 years from? At best he was there like 7 weeks, at worst 3 weeks for some training. Also while I can see on why it seems odd that she can do the same mind trick on Kylo, I think it was more something about, while doing it the user exposes their mind and is thus open for others to easily do it as well.
   1. Also, something else that should be kept in mind, the force is a huge fuck and likes to make its own plan. If there's gonna be a dark side powerhouse, then you can bet your ass on the force gifting the powerhouse to someone else who'll likely be lightsided. Remember Snoke's line in the trailer? "Darkness rises, and Light to meet it". The force is a huge fuck
8. She lived on a junker world with nothing to do when she isn't scraping and looting old ass balls ships or Star Destroyers, do you really believe that some garbage planet with crashed ships has all the good tech, like- she's 19 so I'm sure she had more than enough time to atleast learn something in that time. Also impress doesn't mean be better at it then Han, just impressed that she's good enough for someone from a garbage pile.
9. That's just up to personal taste, I love sassy Luke shitting on Kylo and not giving him any fancy or formal bullshit, like when he brushed off the dust off his shoulder. That's some good Luke content

Anakin is 9 in TPM, like that's saying because a kid cycles every day from age 3 till he's 9 doesn't mean he becomes a top cyclist. And his dad? That's just the force babe, it was the force going fuck you against Plagueis and palp because they tried to create life, it backfired and instead, some random hooha in the desert got pregnant with the force. Like- what Plagueis knew was to keep others from dying, not to create life, that was what he was trying to figure out, and when that failed and Palp saw that he has nothing to learn from Plagueis he usurped. And like- all force beings don't just show up somewhere, the force priestesses are on their lovely little world, and the Mortis Trio was well- On Mortis doing their own bullshit. Like a force sensitive family gotta start somewhere, it might happen randomally, just because we've been following 1 family of people fucking up the galaxy because of the force, doesn't mean that not force sensetive beings can birth force sensetive kids.

 

[CyberChaosV2]

Spoiler

1. I'm sure she has had more force training than we know, just that Disney doesn't wanna release too much stuff beforehand so we didn't see it coming. Just like how they kept us mostly in the dark about what Luke was doing between ANH and TFA. So now that that is out of the way they can start releasing more content about what happened during that time to our old lovable cast.
2. That's valid and I'm on that point with ya boo, her book set her up for so much more and then they did her like this.
3. That's also- yeah, in the initial draft it was gonna be Finn and Poe, but Rian didn't want that because he thought it'd be boring. Aka Rian is a pussy and doesn't dare to put 2 male characters in a healthy and loving relationship, the fans and the actors want it. Give it to us Disney.
4. Valid
5. I don't remember this fully but I guess she just somehow assumed he didn't understand or something and did one of those dumb translations without remembering that the other person also speaks that language.
6. Yeah, it was- tbh if Finn and Poe went to Canto Bite it would not have needed her in the film, which I can live with. General Ackbar should have been the one to do it if anyone, like his death was like an offhand mention in an interview I think, the man deserved better.
7. Got a valid point on the flying part. However, Luke was KO, cold as balls, hanging upside down, didn't know where the fuck he was, Rey, on the other hand, was just in some random snow forest, not KO a few seconds before, aware of what was happening. Also babe, where are you pulling these 5 years from? At best he was there like 7 weeks, at worst 3 weeks for some training. Also while I can see on why it seems odd that she can do the same mind trick on Kylo, I think it was more something about, while doing it the user exposes their mind and is thus open for others to easily do it as well.
   1. Also, something else that should be kept in mind, the force is a huge fuck and likes to make its own plan. If there's gonna be a dark side powerhouse, then you can bet your ass on the force gifting the powerhouse to someone else who'll likely be lightsided. Remember Snoke's line in the trailer? "Darkness rises, and Light to meet it". The force is a huge fuck
8. She lived on a junker world with nothing to do when she isn't scraping and looting old ass balls ships or Star Destroyers, do you really believe that some garbage planet with crashed ships has all the good tech, like- she's 19 so I'm sure she had more than enough time to atleast learn something in that time. Also impress doesn't mean be better at it then Han, just impressed that she's good enough for someone from a garbage pile.
9. That's just up to personal taste, I love sassy Luke shitting on Kylo and not giving him any fancy or formal bullshit, like when he brushed off the dust off his shoulder. That's some good Luke content

Anakin is 9 in TPM, like that's saying because a kid cycles every day from age 3 till he's 9 doesn't mean he becomes a top cyclist. And his dad? That's just the force babe, it was the force going fuck you against Plagueis and palp because they tried to create life, it backfired and instead, some random hooha in the desert got pregnant with the force. Like- what Plagueis knew was to keep others from dying, not to create life, that was what he was trying to figure out, and when that failed and Palp saw that he has nothing to learn from Plagueis he usurped. And like- all force beings don't just show up somewhere, the force priestesses are on their lovely little world, and the Mortis Trio was well- On Mortis doing their own bullshit. Like a force sensitive family gotta start somewhere, it might happen randomally, just because we've been following 1 family of people fucking up the galaxy because of the force, doesn't mean that not force sensetive beings can birth force sensetive kids.

Spoiler

7. While true, there was still training required to do these things, and power isnt the same as usage. IT's stated that Anakin actually has more power with using the force than yoda, but yoda has a shitton of control and experience guiding him and making him that damn strong. Im not gonna argue against the lightsaber pulling thing as that honestly just seems simple enough, but the complexity with a jedi mind trick is what gets me. You can have a big powerhouse, but if they're not sure how to use the amount of power they've got, then it really doesnt do them a whole lotta good now does it?
8. That's a fair point, though I still think that putting it in conjunction with her being able to speak wookie, her being super strong (and apparently quick to pick up on) the force, AND give her enough technical skills to also be able to fix the millenium falcon? (I would've been totally fine with the fixing, that is almost exactly what she'd know on a junker planet, flying is something that I personally consider a bit of a stretch, but that's a personal thing) put every one of those things together and you have Luke Solo Kenobi as a character with a different name and is a woman. I dont mind strong female characters, I mind badly written female (and male) characters.
9.Oh, my friends had a problem with luke being a badass, I personally loved the scene where he just kinda goes "Fuck you" to the blasters, it was the that whole reveal of "But he wasn't even there.... oh, and now he mystically dies." that pissed ME off.

No, but it is stated that he's also naturally good, not just that he had training, I think it's a combination of natural skill, not having much else to do, being forced to work on tech for his owner, and then being super force sensitive. Not entirely convinced that "The Force did it." is official, but sounds plausible

 

[pyrocide]

Alright, it's been long enough, here's my take.

I'm not going to nitpick specific points since all of the major ones have been touched on already. What I'm going to present instead is more of an overall problem pervasive throughout the movie that I'm not sure many have picked up on yet. The point being that star wars doesn't know what to do with itself.

I find this particularly depressing given that this is coming from the same company that gave us the drive and direction for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. With the MCU, Disney has a plan. There's a giant interwoven storyline that's run through each marvel movie planned out years in advance. Star wars, on the other hand, doesn't have a plan, other than they knew they wanted to do a trilogy and some other spin off movies. The story for TFA was written without knowing the story for the next two movies. TLJ was written by a different mind than TFA. Every bit of loose plot, every question the first movie asks and the second fails (or refuses) to answer, this is why. It's also why the movie moves forward in the end making no advancement in the series, because it couldn't go anywhere. We start with the rebels on the run, and we end with them doing the exact same thing, because there is no place determined for the movie to go. TLJ could have been fine so long as Johnson focused on telling one coherent story, but instead he makes a point to let everyone know this second movie is "his" rather than continuing what Abrams put in motion, to the detriment of the trilogy's plotline. The story from TFA to TLJ is a disjointed mess, and that's the true root of why so many of us dislike TLJ.

To summarize, think of it another way: The difference in planning is easy to see, especially when compared with another series of movie trilogies. Lord of the Rings was well planned. The Hobbit was not.

 

[Hai_Paladin]

Alright, it's been long enough, here's my take.

I'm not going to nitpick specific points since all of the major ones have been touched on already. What I'm going to present instead is more of an overall problem pervasive throughout the movie that I'm not sure many have picked up on yet. The point being that star wars doesn't know what to do with itself.

I find this particularly depressing given that this is coming from the same company that gave us the drive and direction for the Marvel Cinematic Universe. With the MCU, Disney has a plan. There's a giant interwoven storyline that's run through each marvel movie planned out years in advance. Star wars, on the other hand, doesn't have a plan, other than they knew they wanted to do a trilogy and some other spin off movies. The story for TFA was written without knowing the story for the next two movies. TLJ was written by a different mind than TFA. Every bit of loose plot, every question the first movie asks and the second fails (or refuses) to answer, this is why. It's also why the movie moves forward in the end making no advancement in the series, because it couldn't go anywhere. We start with the rebels on the run, and we end with them doing the exact same thing, because there is no place determined for the movie to go. TLJ could have been fine so long as Johnson focused on telling one coherent story, but instead he makes a point to let everyone know this second movie is "his" rather than continuing what Abrams put in motion, to the detriment of the trilogy's plotline. The story from TFA to TLJ is a disjointed mess, and that's the true root of why so many of us dislike TLJ.

To summarize, think of it another way: The difference in planning is easy to see, especially when compared with another series of movie trilogies. Lord of the Rings was well planned. The Hobbit was not.

I feel like given Carrie Fishers passing, The Last Jedi would have worked better as a finale, but feels a lot like Empire at the end. I enjoyed the movie, yes there were plot holes, but I was happy it was a much different story than we have seen before. I also thought Mark Hamil did a really good job.

The Hobbit failed because it is based off a 200 page book, but there is enough of the original book in it that a forgive the overstaturated plot of the movies.

Well written review and I don’t entirely disagree.

 

[Sankera]

Anywho, maybe a video from a star wars youtuber can shed some light on the Rey being gifted in the force issue

 

[CyberChaosV2]

Anywho, maybe a video from a star wars youtuber can shed some light on the Rey being gifted in the force issue

I don't have an issue with her being gifted in the force, I have an issue with her having talent and skill in many different aspects, the force, keeping up with Kylo in a lightsaber duel, being able to repair the millenium falcon, and PILOT the falcon well, understanding chewbacca's language even though Luke couldn't, etc. I have no problem with any one of these single skills, or even a small handful (So long as they are given proper explanation) the problem arises when these come up and solve many of the problems Rey faces, thus concluding that conflict and not really giving the character any development. A more interesting thing to do is that since Rey might not be used to melee combat, she has trouble fighting Kylo in a melee combat, so she has to rely on her greater force abilities a lot in order to do so. but this was not done, instead she beat his force with her force, and won against him in a lightsaber duel, then went on to show even more skills and capabilities. Yes, many of these can be easily explained, but they could just as easily NOT be explained to be skills, and instead be faults. She's not good at driving the Millenium Falcon since, while she's used to working on tech on her homeworld, she's also only really driven small vessels before (Just an example) she's not good at repairing the falcon cause she's more used to just scrapping stuff for useful parts and putting what works together, rather than having to deal with broken/damaged parts. Just as easily that you can explain many of these skills, you can easily explain why they wouldn't exist, yet the creators chose to have this mary sue of a character be the flagship, and the sole reason I refuse to get into the new trilogy. I would love it way more if Kylo Ren was the protagonist, his struggle is much more believable, and much more enticing to watch.

 

[Old-Seadog]

i agree with rey being a little OP