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State of Events (Q2 2016)

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
Ideally, they progress the plot, yes. But they could just destroy it, always possible. What then? What if they just destroy the stone?
Then they still progress the plot. Consequences will or won't happen depending on the truth to Clain's claims. The world goes on to deal with them.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
To me it almost seems like the progression of events hinges on staff while halting any initiative that disagrees. It would be beyond simple to allow negatives to happen and warp events around what occurs. Almost like some kind of... Story... Hm.
 

LiraKitty

Lord of Altera
Who said the stone had to be destructible? I mean these are magical bastion stones meant to help save the gods right?
 

Mitch

Daydreamer
Good
HoboVigilante
HoboVigilante
Good
If a small group takes the stone, and then some other small group takes another stone and they don't want to work together, then we get that whole chaos thing I was talking about where the server catches fire and everything is ruined.
Or, y'know, we just get conflict in RP and a different dynamic to the plotline.

Two parties fighting over stones or a singular party traversing one of the dungeons doesn't make the campaign any less for anyone involved. I'd say it makes more, actually. If two parties are fighting, people have the opportunity to take sides, to try to convince them to resolve it peacefully, to exploit the conflict in some form of way; the options are endless, and all it does is continue to generate RP rather than lessen it for the rest of the server. The degree in which individual players, from there, choose to involve themselves in what occurs afterwards is their choice alone. A singular party traverses the dungeon? If they succeed, well done - the rest of the campaign still continues on for everyone else. If they unleash something they shouldn't have or mess up, then they're left dealing with the repercussions of what the players decide to do against/to that party OR the rest of the server/a larger group having to pick up the pieces and fix the mess. If the party fails, then they realize they have to gather more people to succeed, or another group comes in and gets to try their hand next. Maybe they go to the initial attempted group and say "hey, any advice for us? Maybe you want to tag along and help to guide us and see if, combined, we have more success."

There's so much more that can happen if player initiative isn't falsely promoted and following actions have a real impact. It generates a lot more RP than the stand-still we're stuck in right now, where anyone taking any sort of initiative has to wait for everyone else to catch up and from there follow a very pre-set course of events. Waiting for months for someone to find the stones in the proper, predetermined order has really slowed any sort of campaign-based RP and momentum aside from "let's organize a group to find a stone only to be sealed out and have to wait for half the server, and then do it all again." On the other hand, I'm confident a free-flowing, constantly progressive campaign would be drowning in all sorts of different player-driven RP.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
Who said the stone had to be destructible? I mean these are magical bastion stones meant to help save the gods right?
Players don't know much about them because they've been unseen to the public, unfortunately.
 

Immerael

The Shadow Admín
Retired Staff
Who said the stone had to be destructible? I mean these are magical bastion stones meant to help save the gods right?
Thats just an IC claim of Clain whom just about everyone questions to some degree. Some groups want to destroy them, others keep them from clain, some study some prevent them being moved.
 

dUMMY

Dead Man Walking
Dummyplug
Dummyplug
Then they still progress the plot. Consequences will or won't happen depending on the truth to Clain's claims. The world goes on to deal with them.
The world either goes on to deal with them, or the player base gets real upset that the world as they see it is ruined and they just leave.
 

dUMMY

Dead Man Walking
Dummyplug
Dummyplug
A small group of characters simply cannot be allowed to decide the fate of the server for everyone else. It has the potential to cause too many upsets.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
A small group of characters simply cannot be allowed to decide the fate of the server for everyone else. It has the potential to cause too many upsets.
The problem here is that a small group IS deciding. It just so happens that small group is the one to side with the event character.
The world either goes on to deal with them, or the player base gets real upset that the world as they see it is ruined and they just leave.
The event character that may not even be right. If you did everything right in the campaign and things were still destroyed, a group would likely leave anyway. It only seems there would be more dissatisfaction in that regard.
 

dUMMY

Dead Man Walking
Dummyplug
Dummyplug
The problem here is that a small group IS deciding. It just so happens that small group is the one to side with the event character.
I do not see how the group of the player base that sides with Clain is immune to the efforts and influence of other groups. Considering there are planned events where both sides will be together and where the real decisions can be made. Can you explain this to me?
The event character that may not even be right. If you did everything right in the campaign and things were still destroyed, a group would likely leave anyway. It only seems there would be more dissatisfaction in that regard.
I see your point here, and I agree. I see the kind of uncertainty that Clain, as an element of the campaign, is building amongst characters and this also overflows into players as well(it's good stuff). But, OOCly, I doubt that the staff would just pull a fast one on the player base and say "Too bad, you gambled wrong.", it's counter-intuitive for the story to negatively effect the player base and thus negatively effect the health of the server. I've seen enough evidence IC for me as a player to be pretty darn certain that Clain is telling the truth. My character is the only one to have actually stuck by Clain's side during the last stone event and watched his every move because of my character's suspicion. Now, I don't want to just say anything outright and of course I'm not staff, but the possibility of the staff fooling the player base in a way that would make us unduly upset is just right out the window, in my opinion. If I'm wrong, then I live up to my forum name.
 
Last edited:

Smurf

Lord of Altera
Mystic
Hiraetha
Hiraetha
Mystic
There's a route to the end of the campaign that is set that doesn't allow for much exploration, because an NPC is being forced to work you through it; of course, that's just how it has seemed since the campaign started. If a group of characters disagrees with Clain and wants to get the stone for themselves, they cannot. Personally, I think it'd make for a great RP if several factions held different stones and they had to either compromise, battle it out, or hoard them for themselves for the campaign to continue. It'd make for much more interesting RP, not just guideline quests that can't be altered.

There's no drive for people to go out of their comfort zones and get the stones, at this point, because nothing will happen if they take a year to collect them. A war won't break out, Gods won't (I assume, unless we've been lied to) smite everyone in Altera, etc. Sadly, so far, this Campaign has seemed purely event/adventure-driven, leaving no room for characters that can't explore, or won't explore because it isn't part of their personality or capabilities. Players have not had the chance to study the stones, map the areas, and do other things that are within their character capabilities. Frankly, if your character is disliked by people, can't explore themselves (read; they are children or upper nobility that are currently part of a WAR), or are not willing to explore for the stones, you cannot participate in the campaign. Period. So what are the leftovers supposed to do?
 

Azur

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
A_Z_U_R
A_Z_U_R
Lover
There's a route to the end of the campaign that is set that doesn't allow for much exploration, because an NPC is being forced to work you through it; of course, that's just how it has seemed since the campaign started. If a group of characters disagrees with Clain and wants to get the stone for themselves, they cannot. Personally, I think it'd make for a great RP if several factions held different stones and they had to either compromise, battle it out, or hoard them for themselves for the campaign to continue. It'd make for much more interesting RP, not just guideline quests that can't be altered.

There's no drive for people to go out of their comfort zones and get the stones, at this point, because nothing will happen if they take a year to collect them. A war won't break out, Gods won't (I assume, unless we've been lied to) smite everyone in Altera, etc. Sadly, so far, this Campaign has seemed purely event/adventure-driven, leaving no room for characters that can't explore, or won't explore because it isn't part of their personality or capabilities. Players have not had the chance to study the stones, map the areas, and do other things that are within their character capabilities. Frankly, if your character is disliked by people, can't explore themselves (read; they are children or upper nobility that are currently part of a WAR), or are not willing to explore for the stones, you cannot participate in the campaign. Period. So what are the leftovers supposed to do?
The left overs watch everyone else argue, and laugh at how bad things seem.
 

dUMMY

Dead Man Walking
Dummyplug
Dummyplug
There's a route to the end of the campaign that is set that doesn't allow for much exploration, because an NPC is being forced to work you through it; of course, that's just how it has seemed since the campaign started. If a group of characters disagrees with Clain and wants to get the stone for themselves, they cannot. Personally, I think it'd make for a great RP if several factions held different stones and they had to either compromise, battle it out, or hoard them for themselves for the campaign to continue. It'd make for much more interesting RP, not just guideline quests that can't be altered.

There's no drive for people to go out of their comfort zones and get the stones, at this point, because nothing will happen if they take a year to collect them. A war won't break out, Gods won't (I assume, unless we've been lied to) smite everyone in Altera, etc. Sadly, so far, this Campaign has seemed purely event/adventure-driven, leaving no room for characters that can't explore, or won't explore because it isn't part of their personality or capabilities. Players have not had the chance to study the stones, map the areas, and do other things that are within their character capabilities. Frankly, if your character is disliked by people, can't explore themselves (read; they are children or upper nobility that are currently part of a WAR), or are not willing to explore for the stones, you cannot participate in the campaign. Period. So what are the leftovers supposed to do?
In your first paragraph, you are asking for a degree of inclusiveness where a small group of players can progress the campaign without the rest of the server being involved, thus leaving them out. But in the last sentence of your second paragraph, you argue that characters have been left out by the campaign and that that is a bad thing. Your argument is a bit confusing to me.
 

dUMMY

Dead Man Walking
Dummyplug
Dummyplug
Some characters may have no drive to participate due to specific IC reasons. But I think the fact of the matter is that the campaign is being as inclusive as possible.
 
7

7632

Guest
Impressive. Quite a lot has been said on this thread, some of it true and some not. Some of it appropriate and some not. I've been purposefully silent for a couple of reasons. To begin, responses were coming in so fast that I could not keep up. They've remained frequent for quite some time, so in the interest of making sure everybody had an opportunity to express their opinions, I thought I'd wait until this thread cools down. It has. Somewhat. More like it's circular. Close enough.

Oh, boy is there a lot of misconception. Yes, the doors are locked, yes, if the Bastions are completed there's a particular order, and yes there are both OOC and IC reasons for all of this. The IC reasons are SPOILER. Yes, you need previous stones to get into the later Bastions. No, you don't need Clain specifically. Oh, and you don't have to run the Bastions at all. Wanna kill Clain? Try. Wanna fight Clain's cause? That's up to you. Don't wanna tell Clain you found a Bastion? That works. Wanna support Clain? Sounds good. Wanna start a war over whether to help him? All part of the campaign. Don't want to participate in the efforts to get to the stones? Fine.

We have given you lot the freedom to do these things, yet here I am listening to you guys whine about us not letting you. Did you TRY any of it? Nope.

Here's another grand observation. 6 pages, this thread is now 6 pages. Not ONCE did anybody ask me to clarify anything. You asked for transparency on a thread ABOUT transparency, but you guys never asked me to clarify anything. You all assumed that you couldn't do things, so you didn't try things. Guess what!? That's metagaming! You made an OOC assumption that you HAD to play along, but this whole time you've had the freedom to shape the campaign, you just didn't try it.

Of course, now that I've told you you don't have to play along with Clain likely means there will be more attempts on disrupting his cause, which in turn might cause his supporters to defend him. Gee, I wonder if that was one of the possible outcomes...

The point is, there's a LOT more depth to this campaign than you all are giving it credit for. Hundreds of hours have been spent preparing this thing. If I billed out my time alone, I'd probably be past a full time job. There are loads of files with instructions for all the teams, guides for how to play some of the characters, and contingencies and possible outcomes. We've put the work into making this a really rich story.

I'm appalled by the tone, the tenacity, the gall of this thread. I've read every comment, and quite frankly I'm ashamed. You don't trash-talk (some might put it more gently and say "nitpick") somebody's work like this, in front of them, without asking for their input. You want to give feedback on events? Fine. I've asked for constructive criticism (on a different thread). Not much of this thread is constructive. Most of it is misconception and what is perceived to be "wrong." I don't see much about what we can do to make it "right." What I do see is six pages of players being inconsiderate and argumentative toward each other, toward staff, and toward this campaign and by extension me.

We're lucky we even have a server campaign. Trying to make a lore-compliant campaign consistent with server goals in mind is worse than a root canal. Trying to keep all the spoilers, well, spoilers, is equally challenging. Staff was doing well and cooperating with each other toward a common goal. Then we get to a locked door.

A locked door. That’s what all this fighting is about. One group is mad because there’s an IC mechanism in place to stop people from completing Bastions without the rest of the server. The same group is complaining that it’s been 43 days since the last Bastion. They’re the same ones that bitched about the first Bastion, saying it didn’t involve enough people. They’re the same ones that inspired Altera Alive, a specifically interactive chapter of the campaign specifically designed to weed out the necessity of a quest giver.

The original campaign had a quest giver and no Altera Alive. The original campaign had a Bastion once a month and way less freedom. The original campaign was changed to meet the concerns of this community. We changed it because the community didn’t want a quest giver. We brought in Altera Alive because the community wanted to be engaged. Everything was working fine. Then, one group encountered a locked door.

And here we are, arguing once again about the direction of the campaign. People are throwing the kitchen sink at events, which means at me, and I struggle to think “If only I had done it my way instead of listened to community feedback.” But it was my choice. The buck stops with me. I made a decision to strive to provide a better campaign. I was transparent. I asked for criticism. I listened. I made adjustments. And we got to a locked door.

The full details of the campaign are behind a locked door (more like a locked google folder). I kept the full details secret, except for those who needed to know. Much like actors and support staff in a TV show don’t know the ending, so do most of the staff not know the end of the campaign. There’s very good reason for it, but I’m at a situation where I’m not at liberty to share the end. Just wait and see. Once the whole thing is over, you’ll understand.

But the information stays locked. The door stays locked until circumstances lead to opening it. There’s IC mechanism to explain it all. The attempt to complete the second Bastion is coming, though. Just be patient. The answers you seek are coming.

Some of you have asked for things to be “fixed”. I don’t really get how it can be fixed in the way you desire. If we let small groups open and explore the bastion and get stones, then it’s not inclusive in the way you want. But if we don’t let small groups open and explore the bastions and get the stones, then apparently Altera Alive is a waste. Except it’s not a waste because the Bastions are being found and the next Bastions can be explored if we get that far.

To say the journey to finding the Bastions is a waste is like saying that Tolkien’s The Two Towers is a waste because while they walked toward Mount Doom they didn’t get there yet. If you read The Two Towers by itself, it is pretty pointless. But it’s thankfully part of a trilogy, and that trilogy has an ending (looking at you George R.R. Martin).

Wait for an ending. Read Return of the King. Wait for the context before you pass judgment. Speaking of passing judgment and offering feedback. Do it with a bit more tact. Turn it into an intellectual discourse. Show some respect to the people who work their asses off for your entertainment. If you don’t want to do those things, then be sure to accept the consequences of your actions.

That’s really pretty important, to accept the consequences of your actions. What’s even more important is to think about and accept consequences even before acting. The consequences of shit-posting volunteers is making said volunteers feel like shit. And right now I feel like shit.

It makes me not want to help you. It makes me not want to try to “fix” things. It makes me want to walk away. Which is what I’m doing. You asked for a fix. Here you go. I hereby resign from events. I can’t fix this because it’s not broken. Our community is broken, and I’m tired of trying to entertain people who are ungrateful and rude. To borrow from a colleagues’ statement, if I conjured heaven you’d turn it to hell.

I'll turn over the planning files to the new coordinator, whoever that is. Som and Cherry also have access to it. Though its a distinct possibility that the whole fucking thing gets voided and all that hard work goes to waste. For all of our sakes, I hope that doesn't happen, but that's not my call. Seems like the loudest contrarians think our work is already going to waste, so maybe it doesn't matter.

If we're going to be sustainable, not just in events but as a community, then we can't be abrasive like this anymore. That's not how the world works and that's not how this community should work. If it's not events its war rules, its consent rules, its alt rules, its revive rules, its promotions and demotions. We need a paradigm shift away from a culture that accepts shitposting as the norm, away from a community that views it acceptable to openly criticize staff's hard volunteer work to keep you lot entertained. We need to turn into a community that is grateful for what it has. Right now we're far, far from that.

I'm not the only staff member who's tired of this. The current toxic attitude of some in this server is literally tearing this community apart.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Centurion

Dark Council Elite
Has nobody mentioned yet that, historically, the fate of the server in character has... always been decided by a small group that knows what to do and what not to do that the rest of the playerbase trusts not to kill everyone inadvertently?
 

LiraKitty

Lord of Altera
Impressive. Quite a lot has been said on this thread, some of it true and some not. Some of it appropriate and some not. I've been purposefully silent for a couple of reasons. To begin, responses were coming in so fast that I could not keep up. They've remained frequent for quite some time, so in the interest of making sure everybody had an opportunity to express their opinions, I thought I'd wait until this thread cools down. It has. Somewhat. More like it's circular. Close enough.

Oh, boy is there a lot of misconception. Yes, the doors are locked, yes, if the Bastions are completed there's a particular order, and yes there are both OOC and IC reasons for all of this. The IC reasons are SPOILER. Yes, you need previous stones to get into the later Bastions. No, you don't need Clain specifically. Oh, and you don't have to run the Bastions at all. Wanna kill Clain? Try. Wanna fight Clain's cause? That's up to you. Don't wanna tell Clain you found a Bastion? That works. Wanna support Clain? Sounds good. Wanna start a war over whether to help him? All part of the campaign. Don't want to participate in the efforts to get to the stones? Fine.

We have given you lot the freedom to do these things, yet here I am listening to you guys whine about us not letting you. Did you TRY any of it? Nope.

Here's another grand observation. 6 pages, this thread is now 6 pages. Not ONCE did anybody ask me to clarify anything. You asked for transparency on a thread ABOUT transparency, but you guys never asked me to clarify anything. You all assumed that you couldn't do things, so you didn't try things. Guess what!? That's metagaming! You made an OOC assumption that you HAD to play along, but this whole time you've had the freedom to shape the campaign, you just didn't try it.

Of course, now that I've told you you don't have to play along with Clain likely means there will be more attempts on disrupting his cause, which in turn might cause his supporters to defend him. Gee, I wonder if that was one of the possible outcomes...

The point is, there's a LOT more depth to this campaign than you all are giving it credit for. Hundreds of hours have been spent preparing this thing. If I billed out my time alone, I'd probably be past a full time job. There are loads of files with instructions for all the teams, guides for how to play some of the characters, and contingencies and possible outcomes. We've put the work into making this a really rich story.

I'm appalled by the tone, the tenacity, the gall of this thread. I've read every comment, and quite frankly I'm ashamed. You don't trash-talk (some might put it more gently and say "nitpick") somebody's work like this, in front of them, without asking for their input. You want to give feedback on events? Fine. I've asked for constructive criticism (on a different thread). Not much of this thread is constructive. Most of it is misconception and what is perceived to be "wrong." I don't see much about what we can do to make it "right." What I do see is six pages of players being inconsiderate and argumentative toward each other, toward staff, and toward this campaign and by extension me.

We're lucky we even have a server campaign. Trying to make a lore-compliant campaign consistent with server goals in mind is worse than a root canal. Trying to keep all the spoilers, well, spoilers, is equally challenging. Staff was doing well and cooperating with each other toward a common goal. Then we get to a locked door.

A locked door. That’s what all this fighting is about. One group is mad because there’s an IC mechanism in place to stop people from completing Bastions without the rest of the server. The same group is complaining that it’s been 43 days since the last Bastion. They’re the same ones that bitched about the first Bastion, saying it didn’t involve enough people. They’re the same ones that inspired Altera Alive, a specifically interactive chapter of the campaign specifically designed to weed out the necessity of a quest giver.

The original campaign had a quest giver and no Altera Alive. The original campaign had a Bastion once a month and way less freedom. The original campaign was changed to meet the concerns of this community. We changed it because the community didn’t want a quest giver. We brought in Altera Alive because the community wanted to be engaged. Everything was working fine. Then, one group encountered a locked door.

And here we are, arguing once again about the direction of the campaign. People are throwing the kitchen sink at events, which means at me, and I struggle to think “If only I had done it my way instead of listened to community feedback.” But it was my choice. The buck stops with me. I made a decision to strive to provide a better campaign. I was transparent. I asked for criticism. I listened. I made adjustments. And we got to a locked door.

The full details of the campaign are behind a locked door (more like a locked google folder). I kept the full details secret, except for those who needed to know. Much like actors and support staff in a TV show don’t know the ending, so do most of the staff not know the end of the campaign. There’s very good reason for it, but I’m at a situation where I’m not at liberty to share the end. Just wait and see. Once the whole thing is over, you’ll understand.

But the information stays locked. The door stays locked until circumstances lead to opening it. There’s IC mechanism to explain it all. The attempt to complete the second Bastion is coming, though. Just be patient. The answers you seek are coming.

Some of you have asked for things to be “fixed”. I don’t really get how it can be fixed in the way you desire. If we let small groups open and explore the bastion and get stones, then it’s not inclusive in the way you want. But if we don’t let small groups open and explore the bastions and get the stones, then apparently Altera Alive is a waste. Except it’s not a waste because the Bastions are being found and the next Bastions can be explored if we get that far.

To say the journey to finding the Bastions is a waste is like saying that Tolkien’s The Two Towers is a waste because while they walked toward Mount Doom they didn’t get there yet. If you read The Two Towers by itself, it is pretty pointless. But it’s thankfully part of a trilogy, and that trilogy has an ending (looking at you George R.R. Martin).

Wait for an ending. Read Return of the King. Wait for the context before you pass judgment. Speaking of passing judgment and offering feedback. Do it with a bit more tact. Turn it into an intellectual discourse. Show some respect to the people who work their asses off for your entertainment. If you don’t want to do those things, then be sure to accept the consequences of your actions.

That’s really pretty important, to accept the consequences of your actions. What’s even more important is to think about and accept consequences even before acting. The consequences of shit-posting volunteers is making said volunteers feel like shit. And right now I feel like shit.

It makes me not want to help you. It makes me not want to try to “fix” things. It makes me want to walk away. Which is what I’m doing. You asked for a fix. Here you go. I hereby resign from events. I can’t fix this because it’s not broken. Our community is broken, and I’m tired of trying to entertain people who are ungrateful and rude. To borrow from a colleagues’ statement, if I conjured heaven you’d turn it to hell.

I'll turn over the planning files to the new coordinator, whoever that is. Som and Cherry also have access to it. Though its a distinct possibility that the whole fucking thing gets voided and all that hard work goes to waste. For all of our sakes, I hope that doesn't happen, but that's not my call. Seems like the loudest contrarians think our work is already going to waste, so maybe it doesn't matter.

If we're going to be sustainable, not just in events but as a community, then we can't be abrasive like this anymore. That's not how the world works and that's not how this community should work. If it's not events its war rules, its consent rules, its alt rules, its revive rules, its promotions and demotions. We need a paradigm shift away from a culture that accepts shitposting as the norm, away from a community that views it acceptable to openly criticize staff's hard volunteer work to keep you lot entertained. We need to turn into a community that is grateful for what it has. Right now we're far, far from that.

I'm not the only staff member who's tired of this. The current toxic attitude of some in this server is literally tearing this community apart.
If I have offended in any way please forgive, that was not my intention. I know you are frustrated but don't give up on us just yet please.
 

Smurf

Lord of Altera
Mystic
Hiraetha
Hiraetha
Mystic
I'm not the only staff member who's tired of this. The current toxic attitude of some in this server is literally tearing this community apart.
Toxic attitudes and hypocritical comments from both sides, because they don't know how to understand one another. It's a vicious cycle.
 

Rygan

Deathblade
Evil
Rygan_Deathblade
Rygan_Deathblade
Evil
We need a paradigm shift away from a culture that accepts shitposting as the norm, away from a community that views it acceptable to openly criticize staff's hard volunteer work to keep you lot entertained. We need to turn into a community that is grateful for what it has. Right now we're far, far from that./quote]
The fact that you want a silent community that shuts ups and only praises your work tells me all I need to know. Our arguments aren't shitposting, they're genuine concerns from community members. This mindset is appalling.
 
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