Medieval & Fantasy Minecraft Roleplaying

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Medieval Archery

Tybalt

Lord of Altera
cooltext117911564450992.png
I am making a proper what is right/wrong combat thread. If you are wishing for someone to tell you that you can shoot like Lars Anderson, you are wrong and This thread is not for me to say why he is making very wrong and arrogant claims. So lets get to it!
Also I am just really going to name specs and capabilities.

Styles of Bows

Longbow - We all know of the English Longbow. It is a Fancy stick that is longer then Ordinary bows so they can hold more drawweight and draw bigger arrows that packs more of a punch.
Benifits:
  • Greater Drawweights up to 200 lbs
  • Larger arrows that has a greater force upon impact.


Recurve bow - Their "Recurve" Shape allows a more effiecent way of drawing back an arrow. Making it easier to pull back greater weights. Their compact size make them more useful and practical to use on Horseback. Also they have a ledge that an arrow can rest on unlike longbows that increases accuracy.
Benifits:
  • Easier to draw back higher draw weights
  • Compact design, ideal use for Horseback Archers
  • More accurate then Longbows
Types of Arrows
Broadhead

Broadhead.jpg

Broadheads have a wide edge and can have up to 2-4 ideally. They are mainly used when hunting or against unarmored opponents. Their increased surface area above other arrow types causes more bleeding and allows a fallen beast or enemy to die of blood loss quicker.

Barbed Arrows
Barbed.jpg

Barbed Arrowheads are really just like Broadheads. Except when they are pulled out of a wound, their "Barbs" catches onto flesh, and often causes more damage then initially being pierced. These arrows will put a Soldier out of commission for a lengthy amount of time, and thensome depending where shot.

Bodkin
Bodkin arrow.jpg
The fabled bodkin. There is alot of misconceptions about this arrow type. And I am going to upset all the Robin Hoods, thieves, and Ranger characters here. The Bodkin arrow was designed for use against Chainmail. It's slender model is perfect for piercing between the rings in mail. Infact, in history it was designed specifically for that purpose.

If you want ANY chance of piercing plate armor with a Recurve or Traditional Longbow. You will want a thicker bodkin head under these conditions.
  • Thicker bodkin arrow tip
  • 200lb warbow which is the highest Draw weight ever saw in history and not an easy thing whatsoever to pull back.
  • Less than 20 feet away
  • Aim at the back of the knee, perhaps elbow. There is a few places in plate armor where it is thinner. I am not the BEST versed in Plate specs. But I am more knowledgeable then most and can call upon people who do know more on it. And they will likely see this thread and correct me there.
  • Even then the curvature of the Plate Armor usually causes the arrows to just deflect off it.
  • And EVEN if it peirces, the Gambeson underneath the metal will catch it before it hits the body.
Drawweights

25-50lbs Ideal for hunting any animal. Can kill a man

70-100lbs Ideal for self defense against weaker armors to peircing attacks. Such as chainmail and leather.

100lb-200lbs These would be classified as warbows and very few people would be strong/skilled enough to carry these around. Nor is it reasonable in most instances because most people don't expect to encounter a tank every day of their lives. But we all know how violent RP servers can be so it is not AS unreasonable.
Plate peircing if at all occurs under the conditions I mentioned in the bodkin section.
Arrows shot at these weights often had thin metal plates in the groove that you notch it to the drawstring with so the force of it did not split the arrow in half when released. These things were used to kill bears. (Didn't pull that fact about killing bears out of historical context but it is true.)

Invest in an arbalist, and learn the areas whee Plate armor is weaker if you want to combat plate armor with ranged weaponry.

Purpose of Archery in Medieval Warfare
But if we cannot pierce a Knight's armor? Why were Longbows even used in warfare?

Simple, it's purpose was to disrupt an approaching armies Formations. Very devistating against Calvary especially.
Also they were shot in masses so it made a literal rain of arrows that burrs the skies and blocks out the sun. And all trained English Longbow Archers, the best, could shoot up to 5 times in one minute with a 180lb drawweight. By chance an arrow would go through a hole in the armor for the eye. Someone have a deteriorating peice of armor. The lower ranks in just chain or partial plate that couldn't afford a whole set were mowed down. etc.

Quivers
Lars Anderson is wrong about the Hip Quiver. That would be where your daggers and Sword goes. Don't get me wrong they were used. But it is a arrogant claim to say that it is better or faster. Archery is all about what works for you in that regard.

Most English Longbow men had standing quivers anyhow that they would have set infront of them with more arrows then a hip or back quiver could carry.

Eye Dominance
It does not matter which side of the bow you shoot from. Lars claims that modern day archery is shoot from the left side because we only shoot with one eye. And that he uses both and shoots from the right, thus quicker.

We shoot with one eye and from the right side of the bow because it feels natural and eye dominance. Everybody has a dominant eye. Find this by placing your thumb in front of you and look at a tree. Close one eye then the other. The eye that does not change when you close the other is your dominant one. Aim with that one.


I hope this help yall understand the realism of Archery on Hollowworld and be something to look back on whenever it is necessary to bring up in RP. :)


Yes I am bringing the Marrian Rangers back and this is the first step.
@Kyle1322 @bettemus99 @Ddaug02 @Sir_Ashington @mokwar @Megadonkey30
 
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Gregor

Lord of Altera
Sidenote: Keeping your bow strung at all times is a horrible idea, there is a reason archers kept their bows and strings in waterproof containers.
Looking at you *Unslings bow from back* people. Take the time to properly string/prepare the bow, which takes more than a single combat move. Bows are not pistols you can whip out at any time, which people seem to think.
 

CaliburofSouls

Lord of Altera
Sidenote: Keeping your bow strung at all times is a horrible idea, there is a reason archers kept their bows and strings in waterproof containers.
Looking at you *Unslings bow from back* people. Take the time to properly string/prepare the bow, which takes more than a single combat move. Bows are not pistols you can whip out at any time, which people seem to think.
You mean my bow can't shoot bullets?
(I'm sorry. I had to make the joke.)
 

Gregor

Lord of Altera
Second note: Bows are not weapons specificly made to kill people one on one, they were support weaponry to be used en masse, sure there were cases where a man in plate armour was killed by a bow and arrow and using bodkins and that they were highly effective, but people tend to leave out the fact that there were 20,000 arrows raining down at the same time, instead of a single one. Stop citing wikipedia you guys.

. . . Nor is it a weapon to be used from close range where you'll get stabbed before you can even properly shoot. I've seen people claim to properly use a bow in ranges where pistols actually become outclassed by knives, and you try to use a bow in that range?

Also, for the knights out there getting shot at by people using longbows at short range. Remember that the sword throw takes less time than a bowshot, -especially- when already in a half sword position.

 
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Somnastra

Puppycat Herder
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Sidenote: Keeping your bow strung at all times is a horrible idea, there is a reason archers kept their bows and strings in waterproof containers.
Looking at you *Unslings bow from back* people. Take the time to properly string/prepare the bow, which takes more than a single combat move. Bows are not pistols you can whip out at any time, which people seem to think.
It makes potential combat very interesting. I've had my first thought be quite often "DAMN, I wish Som's bow was strung," because she keeps it wrapped. It's ... an IC reason to practice blades, actually.
 

Scardrac

Felsummer
Side note!

Cross-nocking is a bad idea. There are primarily two types of arrows. War arrows, and hunting/whatever else arrows. War arrows are much thicker and longer, to be able to push that force through a larger object. That is why you see warbows as they are: Taller than their user. They need to push that force through a large object, in order to punch through that chain-maille of the day. That being said, you can't use a war arrow with a hunting bow that is around the draw weight of ~50. The arrow will be too heavy and too long for the bow to maintain a strong enough potential energy input to make the arrow even usable. That being said, you can't really use hunting arrows with warbows either. The shafts are too thin and too short, that the string will most likely split the arrow-shaft up the middle. Shooting splinters 10 feet down the range isn't that effective.
 

Faelin

The Court Jester
Retired Staff
It makes potential combat very interesting. I've had my first thought be quite often "DAMN, I wish Som's bow was strung," because she keeps it wrapped. It's ... an IC reason to practice blades, actually.
Alternatively,

Run.
 

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Hip quivers were used extensively, though not necessarily by English Longbowmen. Most people forget the fact that... pretty much the whole world used bows, and a lot of them used what would be considered shortbows across Europe. Quite often they used hip quivers to go with that. All in all they were more common than back quivers in Europe :p
 

Paint

Lord of Altera
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ShadowAdmin
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I love this Tybalt, thanks for making it and clearing things up for me!
 

Tybalt

Lord of Altera
Hip quivers were used extensively, though not necessarily by English Longbowmen. Most people forget the fact that... pretty much the whole world used bows, and a lot of them used what would be considered shortbows across Europe. Quite often they used hip quivers to go with that. All in all they were more common than back quivers in Europe :p
The Thread is more from a militaristic point of view. And even then standing quivers were used by most English Longbowmen. In proper battles anyway.
 

Mryosi

Lord of Altera
I am making a proper what is right/wrong combat thread. If you are wishing for someone to tell you that you can shoot like Lars Anderson, you are wrong and This thread is not for me to say why he is making very wrong and arrogant claims. So lets get to it!
Also I am just really going to name specs and capabilities.

Styles of Bows

Longbow - We all know of the English Longbow. It is a Fancy stick that is longer then Ordinary bows so they can hold more drawweight and draw bigger arrows that packs more of a punch.
Benifits:
  • Greater Drawweights up to 200 lbs
  • Larger arrows that has a greater force upon impact.


Recurve bow - Their "Recurve" Shape allows a more effiecent way of drawing back an arrow. Making it easier to pull back greater weights. Their compact size make them more useful and practical to use on Horseback. Also they have a ledge that an arrow can rest on unlike longbows that increases accuracy.
Benifits:
  • Easier to draw back higher draw weights
  • Compact design, ideal use for Horseback Archers
  • More accurate then Longbows
Types of Arrows
Broadhead

View attachment 63374

Broadheads have a wide edge and can have up to 2-4 ideally. They are mainly used when hunting or against unarmored opponents. Their increased surface area above other arrow types causes more bleeding and allows a fallen beast or enemy to die of blood loss quicker.

Barbed Arrows
View attachment 63376

Barbed Arrowheads are really just like Broadheads. Except when they are pulled out of a wound, their "Barbs" catches onto flesh, and often causes more damage then initially being pierced. These arrows will put a Soldier out of commission for a lengthy amount of time, and thensome depending where shot.

Bodkin
View attachment 63375
The fabled bodkin. There is alot of misconceptions about this arrow type. And I am going to upset all the Robin Hoods, thieves, and Ranger characters here. The Bodkin arrow was designed for use against Chainmail. It's slender model is perfect for piercing between the rings in mail. Infact, in history it was designed specifically for that purpose.

If you want ANY chance of piercing plate armor with a Recurve or Traditional Longbow. You will want a thicker bodkin head under these conditions.
  • Thicker bodkin arrow tip
  • 200lb warbow which is the highest Draw weight ever saw in history and not an easy thing whatsoever to pull back.
  • Less than 20 feet away
  • Aim at the back of the knee, perhaps elbow. There is a few places in plate armor where it is thinner. I am not the BEST versed in Plate specs. But I am more knowledgeable then most and can call upon people who do know more on it. And they will likely see this thread and correct me there.
  • Even then the curvature of the Plate Armor usually causes the arrows to just deflect off it.
  • And EVEN if it peirces, the Gambeson underneath the metal will catch it before it hits the body.
Drawweights

25-50lbs Ideal for hunting any animal. Can kill a man

70-100lbs Ideal for self defense against weaker armors to peircing attacks. Such as chainmail and leather.

100lb-200lbs These would be classified as warbows and very few people would be strong/skilled enough to carry these around. Nor is it reasonable in most instances because most people don't expect to encounter a tank every day of their lives. But we all know how violent RP servers can be so it is not AS unreasonable.
Plate peircing if at all occurs under the conditions I mentioned in the bodkin section.
Arrows shot at these weights often had thin metal plates in the groove that you notch it to the drawstring with so the force of it did not split the arrow in half when released. These things were used to kill bears. (Didn't pull that fact about killing bears out of historical context but it is true.)

Invest in an arbalist, and learn the areas whee Plate armor is weaker if you want to combat plate armor with ranged weaponry.

Purpose of Archery in Medieval Warfare
But if we cannot pierce a Knight's armor? Why were Longbows even used in warfare?

Simple, it's purpose was to disrupt an approaching armies Formations. Very devistating against Calvary especially.
Also they were shot in masses so it made a literal rain of arrows that burrs the skies and blocks out the sun. And all trained English Longbow Archers, the best, could shoot up to 5 times in one minute with a 180lb drawweight. By chance an arrow would go through a hole in the armor for the eye. Someone have a deteriorating peice of armor. The lower ranks in just chain or partial plate that couldn't afford a whole set were mowed down. etc.

Quivers
Lars Anderson is wrong about the Hip Quiver. That would be where your daggers and Sword goes. Don't get me wrong they were used. But it is a arrogant claim to say that it is better or faster. Archery is all about what works for you in that regard.

Most English Longbow men had standing quivers anyhow that they would have set infront of them with more arrows then a hip or back quiver could carry.

Eye Dominance
It does not matter which side of the bow you shoot from. Lars claims that modern day archery is shoot from the left side because we only shoot with one eye. And that he uses both and shoots from the right, thus quicker.

We shoot with one eye and from the right side of the bow because it feels natural and eye dominance. Everybody has a dominant eye. Find this by placing your thumb in front of you and look at a tree. Close one eye then the other. The eye that does not change when you close the other is your dominant one. Aim with that one.


I hope this help yall understand the realism of Archery on Hollowworld and be something to look back on whenever it is necessary to bring up in RP. :)


Yes I am bringing the Marrian Rangers back and this is the first step.
@Kyle1322 @bettemus99 @Ddaug02 @Sir_Ashington @mokwar @Megadonkey30

Awesome thread there, though I do have a few comments.
First of all, unless you personally did the actual research links to your sources would be helpful.
It is not that I don't trust your word, I just find it easier to agree with an actual research. Like {This One} that contradicts many of your points.
Matheus Bane (the one who did the research above) might have been wrong but there is nothing to compare it with in this thread. So your resources would be helpful :D
 

Ced

Mountain Bum
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MossyMorel
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Merchant
Two grizzly tidbits about arrows in medieval times:
  1. Arrowheads could be secured to the shaft using only wax. The intention was that the enemy would be shot with the arrow, and try to pull it out, but the head would come off and stay inside him, festering and killing him. The obvious downside to this is that in high heat and rain, the wax would melt or run, so all your arrows would suddenly be defective.
  2. Barbed arrowheads weren't just for causing horrid flesh damage (although that's still pretty gruesome). Some barbed heads were quite thin, and were left in wet, dirty conditions. The rust/bacteria build up that would appear inside the barb was a fairly good way of making sure that if the target didn't die from the arrow, they'd die from the infection.
Lovely huh? :confused:

P.S- I've also heard (I think from Lindybeige on Youtube) that a chainmail and gambeson duo was really effective against most forms of combat-oriented archery. I don't know whether or not Lindy's reasoning is questionable, you can judge for yourself here.
 

Tybalt

Lord of Altera
Two grizzly tidbits about arrows in medieval times:
  1. Arrowheads could be secured to the shaft using only wax. The intention was that the enemy would be shot with the arrow, and try to pull it out, but the head would come off and stay inside him, festering and killing him. The obvious downside to this is that in high heat and rain, the wax would melt or run, so all your arrows would suddenly be defective.
  2. Barbed arrowheads weren't just for causing horrid flesh damage (although that's still pretty gruesome). Some barbed heads were quite thin, and were left in wet, dirty conditions. The rust/bacteria build up that would appear inside the barb was a fairly good way of making sure that if the target didn't die from the arrow, they'd die from the infection.
Lovely huh? :confused:

P.S- I've also heard (I think from Lindybeige on Youtube) that a chainmail and gambeson duo was really effective against most forms of combat-oriented archery. I don't know whether or not Lindy's reasoning is questionable, you can judge for yourself here.
I thought the Scouts that during last summer xD, I purposefully left that out because I didn't want them used against us~
Awesome thread there, though I do have a few comments.
First of all, unless you personally did the actual research links to your sources would be helpful.
It is not that I don't trust your word, I just find it easier to agree with an actual research. Like {This One} that contradicts many of your points.
Matheus Bane (the one who did the research above) might have been wrong but there is nothing to compare it with in this thread. So your resources would be helpful :D
The point of the thread was that I have sorted through many YouTube video's of actual testing and different websites for information and sort through it so yall would not have to go through the pains of searching hours on the Internet.

And by looking at hat test I can say this. I highly doubt it would go all the way through the gam rain aswell.
And the plate they used is not armor, but just a sheet of metal. Armor had curvature to it that helps deflect arrows off the surface of the armor.

If you look throughout the medieval ages and earlier you will see an arms race and you will see this.
  • Mail armor was created.
  • Bodkin arrows were made specifically to go against mail armor
  • Plate armor came into existence to provide protection against bodkins
  • High weight crossbows that you have to crank appears.
And plate armor was used up till guns appeared and even then for a while while guns were still in very primitive stages. They did this for a reason and it was for protection.
 
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