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Nettled Eyes - Feedback
- Thread starter Solus
- Start date
Hello Players- The time's slowly creeping up where I have to take a bit of a break due to irl events occurring that require me to manage them. This means that the process of Arc 2 and 3 may not fully be here until June. I will still attempt to make a few events where players can involve themselves, and/or may involve other Staff or Player DMs to carry out some events.
A)
Moving forward, those attempting to summon demons must make a conversation with me with the following form:
Character Name:
Process:
Intention:
Location:
Number of Attendees:
-If I approve of it, I will ask you to make an event thread, so that it's public. I am attempting to limit solo summons- and only do those for people in the Arcane branch for Faustian Bargains. People who have summoned already cannot summon for another month unless I feel it's important enough for the arc to carry it out.
---
B)
Folk that are interested in becoming Infernal-
*The presence of possessed objects continue to linger around the world. A few can stumble upon them and find them, becoming possessed. You may go through the process of standard rolling, making sure you fit the criteria to be possessed by reading the Lore here, and when you're ready, you can make a profile under Fiends. If the rolls fail, the object will vanish. This is to prevent multiples out there.*
---
C)
Players are allowed to make their own Event Requests regarding the Arc. If I feel it may take a long time, or that groups vying for the same thing may happen, I will try to condense people together. If someone is opposing another group (vs demons or vs whoever), I will try to make sure both sides get to interact with whatever is happening.
---
Always looking for feedback- wether it's on the events or on the Fiend and Abyssmal themselves.
Thank you all for being patient with this campaign.
A)
Moving forward, those attempting to summon demons must make a conversation with me with the following form:
Character Name:
Process:
Intention:
Location:
Number of Attendees:
-If I approve of it, I will ask you to make an event thread, so that it's public. I am attempting to limit solo summons- and only do those for people in the Arcane branch for Faustian Bargains. People who have summoned already cannot summon for another month unless I feel it's important enough for the arc to carry it out.
---
B)
Folk that are interested in becoming Infernal-
*The presence of possessed objects continue to linger around the world. A few can stumble upon them and find them, becoming possessed. You may go through the process of standard rolling, making sure you fit the criteria to be possessed by reading the Lore here, and when you're ready, you can make a profile under Fiends. If the rolls fail, the object will vanish. This is to prevent multiples out there.*
---
C)
Players are allowed to make their own Event Requests regarding the Arc. If I feel it may take a long time, or that groups vying for the same thing may happen, I will try to condense people together. If someone is opposing another group (vs demons or vs whoever), I will try to make sure both sides get to interact with whatever is happening.
---
Always looking for feedback- wether it's on the events or on the Fiend and Abyssmal themselves.
Thank you all for being patient with this campaign.
For the Infernal - I have released the lore to excorcism: https://hollowworld.co.uk/threads/the-fiendish.53935/
However, people attempting it on Abysmal can contact me on Discord so we can set up a DM scenario.
Everyone's character won't instantly know the method- there are a few serveral groups that may have learned this already and one can feasibly teach their own ritual methods over time.
- Pronouns
- He/Him, She/Her, They/Them
___Fortune___
Patron
It cool, 10/10
Goldbeean
Villager
The DMing was amazing and the events were better. I enjoyed every single one I went to (Even if half of them led to my demise-). Unfortunately, I didn’t get to go to very many. It was hard to get involved as someone who’s main is unaffiliated with any organizations save Ñeage Arcana. Granted, I wasn’t very involved; but from the standpoint of someone who doesn’t have much time to go to events, it was really hard to find many things that worked for me time-wise, even if the groups got along with my character. It just seemed that most of the events were more geared to parties as a whole rather than focusing on encouraging individual players to get involved.
But as I said before, I wasn’t very involved in the campaign at alland it’s probable I’m completely wrong, But here’s my two cents (Or three). Also something I liked about the campaign; there was a lot to interact with even out of the events like the demons themselves, the possessed items, and the corrupted plants.
But as I said before, I wasn’t very involved in the campaign at alland it’s probable I’m completely wrong, But here’s my two cents (Or three). Also something I liked about the campaign; there was a lot to interact with even out of the events like the demons themselves, the possessed items, and the corrupted plants.
LuxTop
Legend of Altera
Corruption is pure evil --> All the fiends are corrupt evil --> contracted empower fiends --> contracted are evil by THE definition --> severe backfire, persecuted - are driven out of the world
Arcane magic causes planar convergence, as moral/amoral as kinetic energy can be --> Arcane patrons can be whatever morally --> ? mages do not empower them but destabilize the Veil by own actions ? --> mages are somewhat bad --> occasionally challenged by the few, overall are coexisting peacefully - are integrated in the world
Vyresism is just a mutation - amoral, neutral --> Skraag is somewhat evil? --> vyres empower Skraag --> vyres are ??? --> at large tolerated, - now rarely targeted, integrated in the world
Spiritblessing is just a parasite, a neutral mutation? --> elementals are amoral, neutral? --> spiritblessed ??? let small elemental live in them ??? --> no one persecutes or bothers about them
Mens is neutral, depends on thoughts and beliefs of a person ? --> Figments can be whatever ? --> figment followers by empowering it engage in heresy and cause major world changes --> are persecuted by some to most for they destabilize the world, are integrated in the world somewhat
??? --> Gods are ??? --> blessed empower gods --> most of blessed are good ---> have internal fights, - rarely targeted by mages or fiendish for fear of repercussions - are integral part of the world
Claim
1. Corruption lore, treated as pure evil force, - is polarizing. It turns, irrespective of any actions, all fiendish players evil just by the fact of engagement into the system. A system, which doesn't demand or incentivizes players to commit evil acts. Yet, ostracizing and persecution are at play.
2. Corruption lore is unfair and restrictive. If corrupted beings are an exception and cannot be influenced or transformed, like any other entity can be on HW with the right amount of player effort, - then why it wasn't stated to players committing to the system? There are fiendish players who build entire new regions and communities, who have major character development revolving around the infernal identity, and who had been hardworking on saving their patrons from being gang-killed by 2-3 factions, and all of that despite:
RP isolation
Constant fighting
Arguing
New players being not recommended to play fiendish
3. Corruption lore is inconsistent. If corruption is the pure force of hatred and evil, why then some of the intelligent corrupted netizens of Hell are written as peaceful, or why players interacting with fiends were not warned that they are nothing but destructive, hateful beings, that can't be changed?
4. Corruption lore is simplistic. Pure good and evil make world simple. The best stories revolve around morally grey characters, - it appeals to us. There is realism in it. From game's perspective, the world would be richer and more player friendly, if gods were not whitewashed and demons were not demonized, but if each was power hungry, having different but equal in the magnitude adverse effect on the world. Be it planar convergence, or terraforming, or whatever. If the actions mattered, and not the label. And actions done by players. Not DMs, campaigners, who's intention is to entertain.
5. Corruption lore is inexplicit. There isn't page for this incurable vile force, - and effects of it and mechanics aren't written or public, despite it potentially majorly affecting characters for players - altering their mode of operation, personality, morals. It isn't written either in any of the fiendish pages.
This corruption lore bleeds into OOC, - becoming not a matter of perspective of a character, but taken as the meta fact of the server, which in turn, is taken as an unalloyed truth IC by the "enlightened and right" characters. I think this lore should be revised. If corruption was not necessarily a metaphysical evil force, but as a mutational-physical one, as vyreism, arcane, or blessing, are, then it would not antagonize the players and fiends irrespective of their character and actions. If there were drawbacks to being blessed, as clear as planar convergence, - it would help too. For as world is written, - being blessed is the objectively right choice. If rather all people empowered their patrons - irrespective of their nature - through idiosyncratic methods - which may be moral or immoral, just beneficial and fitting for the patron, - then it would improve also the situation, and add diversity to the world and remove this meta-righteousness, this main hero syndrome that makes the environment uncomfortable. It would equalize all.
Below you can read lore material I quoted from the pages, with supplementary commentary thrown in replying to the discourse of 8th of July from #rp-discussions - that supports this "evident" idea that fiendish players had been well informed and conscious of this corruption=bad idea, - therefore they should bite the bullet, and:
1. Be unable to affect fiends, while all other entities on HW can be affected with enough player effort.
2. Have their patrons killed and characters exorcised when the campaign ends, with all the mechanics of theirs removed - it was for funsies to spice up the story for the heroes fighting against demons.
All I could find on forums about fiends being evil, violent, malicious, and corruption being at play, - is this:
Arcane magic causes planar convergence, as moral/amoral as kinetic energy can be --> Arcane patrons can be whatever morally --> ? mages do not empower them but destabilize the Veil by own actions ? --> mages are somewhat bad --> occasionally challenged by the few, overall are coexisting peacefully - are integrated in the world
Vyresism is just a mutation - amoral, neutral --> Skraag is somewhat evil? --> vyres empower Skraag --> vyres are ??? --> at large tolerated, - now rarely targeted, integrated in the world
Spiritblessing is just a parasite, a neutral mutation? --> elementals are amoral, neutral? --> spiritblessed ??? let small elemental live in them ??? --> no one persecutes or bothers about them
Mens is neutral, depends on thoughts and beliefs of a person ? --> Figments can be whatever ? --> figment followers by empowering it engage in heresy and cause major world changes --> are persecuted by some to most for they destabilize the world, are integrated in the world somewhat
??? --> Gods are ??? --> blessed empower gods --> most of blessed are good ---> have internal fights, - rarely targeted by mages or fiendish for fear of repercussions - are integral part of the world
Claim
1. Corruption lore, treated as pure evil force, - is polarizing. It turns, irrespective of any actions, all fiendish players evil just by the fact of engagement into the system. A system, which doesn't demand or incentivizes players to commit evil acts. Yet, ostracizing and persecution are at play.
2. Corruption lore is unfair and restrictive. If corrupted beings are an exception and cannot be influenced or transformed, like any other entity can be on HW with the right amount of player effort, - then why it wasn't stated to players committing to the system? There are fiendish players who build entire new regions and communities, who have major character development revolving around the infernal identity, and who had been hardworking on saving their patrons from being gang-killed by 2-3 factions, and all of that despite:
RP isolation
Constant fighting
Arguing
New players being not recommended to play fiendish
3. Corruption lore is inconsistent. If corruption is the pure force of hatred and evil, why then some of the intelligent corrupted netizens of Hell are written as peaceful, or why players interacting with fiends were not warned that they are nothing but destructive, hateful beings, that can't be changed?
4. Corruption lore is simplistic. Pure good and evil make world simple. The best stories revolve around morally grey characters, - it appeals to us. There is realism in it. From game's perspective, the world would be richer and more player friendly, if gods were not whitewashed and demons were not demonized, but if each was power hungry, having different but equal in the magnitude adverse effect on the world. Be it planar convergence, or terraforming, or whatever. If the actions mattered, and not the label. And actions done by players. Not DMs, campaigners, who's intention is to entertain.
5. Corruption lore is inexplicit. There isn't page for this incurable vile force, - and effects of it and mechanics aren't written or public, despite it potentially majorly affecting characters for players - altering their mode of operation, personality, morals. It isn't written either in any of the fiendish pages.
This corruption lore bleeds into OOC, - becoming not a matter of perspective of a character, but taken as the meta fact of the server, which in turn, is taken as an unalloyed truth IC by the "enlightened and right" characters. I think this lore should be revised. If corruption was not necessarily a metaphysical evil force, but as a mutational-physical one, as vyreism, arcane, or blessing, are, then it would not antagonize the players and fiends irrespective of their character and actions. If there were drawbacks to being blessed, as clear as planar convergence, - it would help too. For as world is written, - being blessed is the objectively right choice. If rather all people empowered their patrons - irrespective of their nature - through idiosyncratic methods - which may be moral or immoral, just beneficial and fitting for the patron, - then it would improve also the situation, and add diversity to the world and remove this meta-righteousness, this main hero syndrome that makes the environment uncomfortable. It would equalize all.
Below you can read lore material I quoted from the pages, with supplementary commentary thrown in replying to the discourse of 8th of July from #rp-discussions - that supports this "evident" idea that fiendish players had been well informed and conscious of this corruption=bad idea, - therefore they should bite the bullet, and:
1. Be unable to affect fiends, while all other entities on HW can be affected with enough player effort.
2. Have their patrons killed and characters exorcised when the campaign ends, with all the mechanics of theirs removed - it was for funsies to spice up the story for the heroes fighting against demons.
All I could find on forums about fiends being evil, violent, malicious, and corruption being at play, - is this:
<>ABYSSAL & SCION PAGE
For morals, - you aren't asked ANYWHERE to go and kill players, or even harm deities - it just says:
<> There is mention of Virtue in the Scion thread, - is it the "pure good" metaphysical substance that gods have - that whitewashes them, that is the opposite of corruption? Are these pages by chance written from blessed's perspective, or is it the objective lore - gods are good, - demons = bad?
THE FIENDISH PAGE
<> Isn't explicit, - it speaks of negative concepts like Envy and Hatred, - but why can't people have good emotions fueling Anima, feeding off fiends? We are what we eat. Similarly to Mens for Figments, and gods. And what is corruption - force of pure evil? Detach yourself and think from perspectives of a newbie or even experienced players, - can you derive this lore that corruption is the incurable evil force destroying the world from these few sentences I could find on it?
<> Undelins are written as mutated alterans, - who, despite CORRUPTION, - aren't evil.
Are CORRUPTED guardians created by FIENDS.
THE HELLSCAPE HANDBOOK
<> There are hints on things like language changing in Hell - "familiar with demons of old will not recognize it as the old vile language, but can sense the corrupted tongue".
So, please, understand my indignation, when some lore staff or players in the discussion make it clear cut and say that: A. it is very clear corruption is an evil force and you fiendish players made a knowing, conscious decision, when there is all this evidence above. B. actions of demons scream they are bad, when they were done by DMs and not fiendish players. And by not all the fiends. C. You cannot change fiends, when all others can work with entities, - but you cannot. Your player experience doesn't matter. And your concerns are taken as "disservice to the lore".
For morals, - you aren't asked ANYWHERE to go and kill players, or even harm deities - it just says:
and
(I myself had been empowering Geormorren by non-violent means, - and he hinted vaguely on fighting, - but not necessarily a conquest.)
<> There is mention of Virtue in the Scion thread, - is it the "pure good" metaphysical substance that gods have - that whitewashes them, that is the opposite of corruption? Are these pages by chance written from blessed's perspective, or is it the objective lore - gods are good, - demons = bad?
THE FIENDISH PAGE
<> Isn't explicit, - it speaks of negative concepts like Envy and Hatred, - but why can't people have good emotions fueling Anima, feeding off fiends? We are what we eat. Similarly to Mens for Figments, and gods. And what is corruption - force of pure evil? Detach yourself and think from perspectives of a newbie or even experienced players, - can you derive this lore that corruption is the incurable evil force destroying the world from these few sentences I could find on it?
THE HELLSCAPE NETIZENS
<> Undelins are written as mutated alterans, - who, despite CORRUPTION, - aren't evil.
To add, furthermore:
<> Yiozora:
Are CORRUPTED guardians created by FIENDS.
<> Viands:
You say Fiends couldn't had strategy to act more peacefully, - so they can evade the doom of being crusaded by Alterans, to not repeat Queen Grief's fate?
THE HELLSCAPE HANDBOOK
<> There are hints on things like language changing in Hell - "familiar with demons of old will not recognize it as the old vile language, but can sense the corrupted tongue".
So, please, understand my indignation, when some lore staff or players in the discussion make it clear cut and say that: A. it is very clear corruption is an evil force and you fiendish players made a knowing, conscious decision, when there is all this evidence above. B. actions of demons scream they are bad, when they were done by DMs and not fiendish players. And by not all the fiends. C. You cannot change fiends, when all others can work with entities, - but you cannot. Your player experience doesn't matter. And your concerns are taken as "disservice to the lore".
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
I read the whole post I just thought this line was the best jumping-off point.
While I think adding nuance to it is fine, the term "fiend" is a strictly malicious term in any use--at best it's an informal term for an addict, which still seems like a derogatory or other-ing use to me. You do you, but the concept IC and OOC seems pretty specifically 'evil' oriented no matter what way you cut it. The terms "infernal", "abyssal", "hellish" and so on all fall under that blanket too.
That's not to say "hey, this should be condemned as non-human and killed" OOC; people make their own choices IC firstly and secondly if a new transformation/mutation/system is offered, people will obviously involve in it in some capacity, and I don't think that's grounds to punish or persecute them OOC. People will do what they think is cool or generative OOC no matter the system.
LuxTop
Legend of Altera
In DnD tieflings aren't necessarily evil, so are warlock, empowering their patron. I do not see how IRL semantics, influenced primarily by Christianity, negates any of my points, Dee.
Kostadim
Patron
There are various reasons to why Possessed are the more persecuted race/mutation/power system on the server than others.
The very beginning of the introduction to demons has been the Ivory King's invasion, which by nature set an ic bad standard for all demons. Various mechanics with the posssessed system operates on suffering. Although I personally don't like the general tolerance for beings such as mages, spiritblessed, vyres, etc. At least with these systems there is more moral ambiguity to work with. Does the possessed system being a hard set "Evil" route with little room for being works well this way? Yes and no, I think hollowworld has plentiful amounts of morally grey to work with and sometimes a hard set good or bad can be good to help make storylines. Lore team definitely has the element/entity of corurption written down as its been involved in various campaigns over the past few years, whether its meant to be public knowledge or not is not my place to say as a non-lore member.
What I can offer is a bit of a summarization of corruption. If I'm incorrect someone else is free to correct me. Corruption was a tool created by the Immortal kings to destroy and eventually it contributed to killing them off, alongside the pantheon (of which was constructed to stop the spread of and resist corruption) usupring them. Various gods were corrupted in past campaign which showcased them being more violent and wishing to continue the spread of corruption. Corruption was likewise used by Queen Grief the immortal king to wage war on mortals, and it contributed to people needing to evacuate various dimensions. One could argue corruption isn't *technically* evil as it doesn't neccessarily eviscerate existance afaik but more so dramatically changes them to being alien to their original being.
As someone else put it in the discord discussion yesterday, reality is the human body and corruption operates as a cancer. But beyond this in depth lore explanation the premise of going through the route of being a posessed has been hammered home as being immoral. Beyond the ooc conventional understanding of demons there's the fact that various Archfiends relish suffering, slavery and war. Now, you can probably still operate as a "good" person under this corruption alignment, but you are still at the end of the day empowering a malicious entity. That's simply how the system is designed, and I don't see a particular issue with that as I think it leads to conflict and conflict generates interesting rp with substance to it. I think the reason people particularly target posessed is because they participate in such evil practices typically, or are associated with them and also because the other mutations people have befriended and eventually come to accept formulating their own reasons to not persecute them.
Vyres were rather visciously persecuted when first introduced at around 2019 inititally, but overtime they became more accepeted and through invidual rp interactions their persecution died out. Mages have been under scrutiny of persecution for years, but people never really have the gall to do a modern mage genocide because often people are friends with or at least know of a mage. Killing/persecuting mages is a bit illogical and just considered plain immoral because for years mages have helped save the realm repeatedly, and often aren't really bad people. Players also just on an ooc and ic level don't want to kill their rp friends.
The only really consistently hunted group on HW are just evil aligned blessed characters, because they often commit evil acts and worship some of the more consistent forces of evil in the world. The most notable evil faction before Reaching Hand was STEP (Stairway to Eternal Peace) the Jishrimite cult, which kind of died out due to it being essentially the entire server vs them for some years. The fiends imo are just a new natural target since the Jishrim threat has mostly died down. I can agree that corruption lore is inconsistent and rather simplistic, but that is simply the nature of 10+ year old lore that has changed hands with different lore teams. It is a bit of a generic evil benign force, but beyond that I think having a generally accepted evil can allow for some interesting roleplay interactions.
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Sekci
Patron
Would a softcure-like work around be the solution to the divide? Perhaps when the campaign has reached it's conclusion, a softcure could allow fiends to retain some of their hellish roots but remove the connection to corruption.
This would allow the fiendish player base to continue in a slightly different system. I think this would lower the perceived threat of the fiends to a point where there will still be hostility but not necessarily seen as a threat worthy of being wiped out.
Fiend hunters can use the knowledge, experience and skills in regards to this softcure race. Evil fiends who escape to this new system may resume their conflicts with humanity and be hunted down. What happens to the good and neutral fiends can be determined through rp.
This would allow the fiendish player base to continue in a slightly different system. I think this would lower the perceived threat of the fiends to a point where there will still be hostility but not necessarily seen as a threat worthy of being wiped out.
Fiend hunters can use the knowledge, experience and skills in regards to this softcure race. Evil fiends who escape to this new system may resume their conflicts with humanity and be hunted down. What happens to the good and neutral fiends can be determined through rp.
LuxTop
Legend of Altera
After a productive discussion with klypto, - I recognized a flaw in my reasoning, - and therefore will be adjusting it here.
In the initial arguing I spoke of the need to adjust the long-established lore of what corruption is as an evil essence, - but there is no need for it in fact. It was an unfitting suggestion that dismissed server's core lore. I fell to a reasoning - that a droplet of corruption causes one to act evil, - yet, - as lore of the beings shows, it isn't true. The case of Underlins being at large peaceful, despite being corrupted, the case of the minotaurs - Yiozora, - who are probably even more corrupted, being not evil, along with scion and abyssal who retain free will, means that corruption at certain levels doesn't lead to pure viciousness. I also recognize that Infernal (lesser fiends) according to lore are vicious, dangerous beings, akin to feral vyres.
Infernalism is a trade off between control and abilities they grant (mimicry + night vision).
I do think Archfiends and abyssal are different to infernals and imps, as beings of higher intelligence and with developed personalities, and of higher rank as fiends. I think they do not necessarily have to spread corruption (corruption created for example underlins and abyssal and scion, who still retain free will) in a violent all conquering manner, - following footsteps of Queen Grief. My speculation on Archfiend's intention to keep some foothold in Altera and be satisfied with it, as it ensures their existence through worship from a following of people, isn't anyhow unfounded. The fact other archfiends chose the violent, all conquering, old Queen Grief's way doesn't dismiss the speculation either. What would prove my hypothetical wrong and all-conquering intention right (it isn't proved yet) - would be a confirmation from staff from fiendish team of this. But so far there had been no response yet. We also cannot argue Archfiends are inherently evil as they are composed of unknown level of corruption - as are Underlins and Abyssals who maintain free will and can control their emotions. Yes, actions of some do show violent nature of demons, - characters have right to judge them according to them, but not on OOC level painting them all with the same thick brush, - without the confirmation. Meaning, - perhaps there is no need to change fiends at all, - just offer them alternative way of living, by those who wish to do that.
I have an additional piece of lore from infernal page.
--If the Fiend’s presence is long term and more severe, the possessed might actions that ultimately seem unlike them. They are then prone to making mischievous actions, schemes or causing grief towards others. The intensity of this side of them will vary over each soul--
Kosta's interpretation of corruption as a cancer is quite useful, - that it is a disease that takes over people's will at some level of it. When inclination to be violent is dominating person. With everyone having different levels of tolerance to it, - and response.
Of course, - all of it is a speculation, until fiendish campaign team makes confirmations. Whether Archfiends are inherently evil and have the goal to conquer and corrupt all of Altera, - or any of the other raised points.
In the initial arguing I spoke of the need to adjust the long-established lore of what corruption is as an evil essence, - but there is no need for it in fact. It was an unfitting suggestion that dismissed server's core lore. I fell to a reasoning - that a droplet of corruption causes one to act evil, - yet, - as lore of the beings shows, it isn't true. The case of Underlins being at large peaceful, despite being corrupted, the case of the minotaurs - Yiozora, - who are probably even more corrupted, being not evil, along with scion and abyssal who retain free will, means that corruption at certain levels doesn't lead to pure viciousness. I also recognize that Infernal (lesser fiends) according to lore are vicious, dangerous beings, akin to feral vyres.
Infernalism is a trade off between control and abilities they grant (mimicry + night vision).
I do recognize that implings and lesser fiends behave viciously and are a danger akin to feral vyres, but nothing forces Abyssal to enforce infernalism on unwilling people, - abyssal can also avoid altogether path of progression through them.
I do think Archfiends and abyssal are different to infernals and imps, as beings of higher intelligence and with developed personalities, and of higher rank as fiends. I think they do not necessarily have to spread corruption (corruption created for example underlins and abyssal and scion, who still retain free will) in a violent all conquering manner, - following footsteps of Queen Grief. My speculation on Archfiend's intention to keep some foothold in Altera and be satisfied with it, as it ensures their existence through worship from a following of people, isn't anyhow unfounded. The fact other archfiends chose the violent, all conquering, old Queen Grief's way doesn't dismiss the speculation either. What would prove my hypothetical wrong and all-conquering intention right (it isn't proved yet) - would be a confirmation from staff from fiendish team of this. But so far there had been no response yet. We also cannot argue Archfiends are inherently evil as they are composed of unknown level of corruption - as are Underlins and Abyssals who maintain free will and can control their emotions. Yes, actions of some do show violent nature of demons, - characters have right to judge them according to them, but not on OOC level painting them all with the same thick brush, - without the confirmation. Meaning, - perhaps there is no need to change fiends at all, - just offer them alternative way of living, by those who wish to do that.
I have an additional piece of lore from infernal page.
--If the Fiend’s presence is long term and more severe, the possessed might actions that ultimately seem unlike them. They are then prone to making mischievous actions, schemes or causing grief towards others. The intensity of this side of them will vary over each soul--
Kosta's interpretation of corruption as a cancer is quite useful, - that it is a disease that takes over people's will at some level of it. When inclination to be violent is dominating person. With everyone having different levels of tolerance to it, - and response.
Of course, - all of it is a speculation, until fiendish campaign team makes confirmations. Whether Archfiends are inherently evil and have the goal to conquer and corrupt all of Altera, - or any of the other raised points.
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Crusader_of_Man
Legend
Honestly the concept was awesome when it started but I feel like war fatigue has set in. A common thing in most rp scenarios, whereas it feels like a slog to get through with little to no prorgress (at least in my side of things) going on. One of the few events where my character was in with a general felt like no matter the case we were meant to die. I understand it was a bit of an Enigma case but I'm still putting it here as a but of feedback; things happen I understand. I actively told my playerbase not to get involved because of this fact though as some of them have nearly nothing in terms of combat stats like my character does and I didn't want them getting bodied in hell for little to no gain. Personally I'm not upset over the death now as I realize what the situation was, but I feel it's hard for lower level players to get involved with the hellscape events if thats the experience given. Perhaps I'm wrong, which is completely possible, but I just wanted to put these forward. Thank you.
Kostadim
Patron
I don't really see how we can argue about the degree of lacking morality for Archfiends when at least around three have performed immoral or have been empowered by immoral actions. The Ivory King killed thousands and as far as we can gauge wanted to conquer Altera. Dranoden has been empowered by murderous cultists and has repeatedly promoted or killed various people, the new demon the Oblisk kidnapped like 10 different characters and enslaved them. You don't really need corruption to be pure evil, but it certainly contributes to that.
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I've tried to condense the impact of Fiends after the Ivory King a lot more to those that do want to take part and not the whole server. That's why the Twisted Star Arc is set in a specific area and location, mainly. The reason why it feels like there's so much Fiend content is because players are pushing for it. They're asking for summon events, for demonic hunt events. Fiends also provide a more tangible, intelligent opposition, as opposed to the undead. I'm doing my best keep the flow of Fiend content slim by spreading out these events and having people focus more on player run events, but it helps when players themselves push for it to find the content that they like and they enjoy.
There are a lot of things that turned south in your event. I've discussed balancing generals with my fellow DM as well, as that's also important, but they are supposed to be on par with decent rollers to keep the events challenging. There are plenty of Fiend content to play around with for low rollers or even people who don't roll and just want to roleplay. The problem is that this particular event was going up against a fortress your group was invading and the expected challenge level is mid-high. I want to emphasize that there has been a lot of Fiend content with low-level rollers over the past year.
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I've introduced Scions. They appear as Infernal but have no magical link to Fiends.
The Scion
░▒▓█▓▒░▒▓█▓▒░▒▓█▓▒░▒▓█▓ ═──────────────────═ ---- - THE - -= S C I O N =- ⵈ ═══════════════════════ ⵈ "Corruption and Virtue conflict within the mortal.." ⵈ ═══════════════════════ ⵈ OOC: Scions do not need to make a profile in the Fiend section. Instead, please add the following form to...
hollowworld.co.uk
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There is a big difference between Fiends, NPC cultists and player character infernal/abyssals. Each have varying motivations for their actions- some are not purely out to kill or steal souls. The story I am providing doesn't showcase a pure evil or good side and if that's going over heads, than that's the interpretation players are fine to have. However, there is corruption everywhere. It's how we see it and how we interpret it that the various Fiend Arcs show come to tell and showcase. It's within man, it's within beast, it's within the demons. One can say it originated from gods, or from Grief through the Fiends, but what does that matter now that it's always been here for centuries? Consider it for a moment. If you still disagree, then don't ruin it for others by pressuring folk ooc that they're evil or wrong. They provide some form of conflict for players, internal and external, and it really helps if sides aren't taken out of character.
Fronslin
Good
This isn't really feedback, But I feel like the amount of things mages can do to help the situation when it comes to things like exorcisms is lacking. Though part of this is because that sort of research would be hidden behind an arcane ticket. Do you think it would be possible for animancy to affect the outcome of an exorcism when used in conjunction with normal rituals? I think it would be cool to give the morally grey animancy that option, and it could also affect things like hallowing which hasn't been as fleshed out as much.
We're working on something viable in the current animancy rework that'll help arcane involve themselves with excorcisms. I may direct people to attempting a gestalt, as well, and am open to working with arcane to establish something.
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Signing a contract/excorcisms will still come with a cost. It prevents people from jumping in and out of contracts easily, makes folk hesitate in putting a character through an excorcism and gives weight to roleplay. That part won't be changing.
I've also heard that players are confused about being one-life-only. If anyone can point out to me where it says, I will amend it. The wording I have used is that when your character's contract is over, that's when your soul will settle with the Fiend. If your character's goals and purpose isn't over and they still intend to follow or gain power from the Fiend, then revivals are alright to do.