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[ Spiritblessed Feedback ]

HollowWorld

HollowWorld's Announcer
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Staff

1632167853739.png
- S P I R I T B L E S S E D -
-= F E E D B A C K =-
ⵈ ═══════════════════════ ⵈ

We are aware the Spiritblessed Rework has turned out in a way some of you were not expecting.

As a result, we would like to provide this feedback thread.

Whether you like it, dislike it or wish it were different in a way, please let us know what you think!
Please do keep it constructive, as we are still people too.

Thank you!

ⵈ ═══════════════════════ ⵈ
1632167853739.png
 

adam_unavailable

Lord of Altera
Patron
Pronouns
He/Him
adam_unavailable
adam_unavailable
Patron
There's a lot of flavour with the rework, which is really cool. And being able to pick the appearance traits is cool too. But I don't really like the removal of the ranking up system , I would've preferred leaving that in.
 

Goldbeean

Legend of Altera
Villager
Goldbeean
Goldbeean
Villager
I agree. I like the new 'passives' such as the Earthblessed one where the character can restore flowers to full health or the Airblessed one where the character can float down from all short jumps. However, having the progression system gave people a reason to keep their character(s) spiritblessed instead of simply unbonding whenever it got boring.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense
 
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Fronslin

Based on what?
Retired Staff
Fronslin
Fronslin
Good
I don't believe a progression system should serve as the only incentive to play a spiritblessed. These changes actually make me want to make a character a spirit blessed character. Mainly because now I don't have to worry about becoming a boss enemy for other players. Think of that what you will. but I am personally very against player vs player conflict. I like most conflicts to come from campaigns. The previous version of spiritblessed needed enough oversight to the point where there was a general concern with the amount of people who became spiritblessed. I feel like it's certainly healthier like this and I think the drawbacks for each type are fairly blanaced.

What is particularly humorous about this, Is that this is sort of what I pictured spirit blessed being like back circa pre 2014. Though I am thankful we do not have elementals talking to us I'm not sure how that would have played out.
 

Kostadim

Lord of Altera
Patron
Kostadim
Kostadim
Patron
I say as this as someone who's gonna have their main character spiritblessed with the current system. I think having spiritblessed be nerfed is a bit of a let down, I know people who were more invested in the system weren't the most happy with it losing out on power that can be on par with divine or arcane when reaching a certain level. I think more alternatives for having your character attain power is a good thing, a consumed vyre is a notable threat to the average character and can really allow for some more rp and progression without things always feeling the same.

I think the current write up is good for a beginner level spiritblessed and I personally enjoy it. But I and others believe that there should be more to get into with it, the old system although flawed had a lot of interesting things going for it and I feel we took a step in the wrong direction with this one in terms of both flavor, rp and general power progression.
 
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TidalTerror

Lord of Altera
Patron
TidalTerror
TidalTerror
Patron
I'm really tired so this is my really short feedback off of spiritblessed, the rework. I can tell that this is what a few people wanted. You can use it in conjuction with the other systems. It's "flavorful". I am not surprised to see some people happy with it. I just cannot say I'm very excited going off what I've seen and read. I can't help but feel like if this is the path spiritblessed is to take.../more/ needs to be added. This is a solid enough "baseline" for the system but as it stands it feels really barebones. That's all I want to say for now, perhaps another time I'll say something more in depth.
 

Jazzper

Hi [Unsuspecting Comment], I'm Jazzper
Legend
Blessed
Jasper151627237
Jasper151627237
Legend
I don't want to jump the gun, but I also do not want to let this sit without a proper response for too long. Based on the feedback, there will be an adjustment in the near future. It won't be as it once was, but it will hopefully be a good compromise between accessibility and power level.
 

Retro

Lord of Altera
Patron
Retired Staff
Retro_hagrid
Retro_hagrid
Patron
I found the update/rework an improvement. I like that some things can be completely operated by a player themselves without the help of a DM/STAFF member. The more independence, the better. Obviously, it seems like there's a slight decrease in power level compared to be the previous system, but I think that's fine.
 

Edouard2000

Lord of Altera
Many things have been said in the thread already that I agree with, I believe that I should throw a response in this thread regardless because I have my own thoughts on rework as a whole.

To begin I think we need to ask ourselves why this rework happened. This is just going to be speculation from me, so don’t take what I say as what the Staff think. I believe the reason Spiritblessed were reworked was due to multiple factors. They weren’t played that much or brought up that much in rp, many people were turned off by the idea that becoming a Spiritblessed essentially “killed” your character off. As reaching higher tiers would drastically alter your emotions and personality. Example being Fire blessed at consumed being much more aggressive. From what I heard from others this pushed them away from the idea of becoming a permanent Spiritblessed. They’d get the first tier, rp it out for a bit but then get it cured as keeping it longer would’ve risked changing their character drastically. This in my opinion and from what I’ve gathered, lead people to not really want to play Spiritblessed unless it was on a character made for becoming consumed. One they didn’t really mind throwing away to this power.

The second reason as to why I believe Spiritblessed were reworked was to tweak/fix their passives and abilities. Whether this be because some abilities were too op, written weirdly and in a way that might’ve been confusing or it conflicted and raised questions with other lore on the server. I can understand why Spiritblessed were reworked because they weren’t getting that much rp. As well as their current powers were hard to balance. Maybe also the lore they brought was another contributing factor to their rework. So a rework was made to try and make Spiritblessed more impactful on the server similar to Vyres. Again this is all just speculation based on what I’ve heard and seen.

What should the goal of a rework be though? In my opinion I believe that when a rework happens it should fix things that are broken/need tweaking, bring more people into it and try to stay true to what it originally was. An example of a recent rework is the Vyre rework. In the old system of Vyres there were issues with their powers and their impact on rp in general. Issues such as their strength made them quite hard to fight especially when it was such a drastic buff. There were also issues in the process of ranking up, wanting to rank up was a difficult task to do since you needed big chains to do so. If you wanted to reach the maximum level of abilities you’d need to get yourself a chain of 9. There were also issues with their interaction with the sun, this usually forced people to only rp at night IC since going out during the day would be deadly or just make you so weak overall. Unless of course you were the right bloodline then it just helped a bit.

So when Vyre’s got reworked they addressed these issues, added new lore as well as made tweaks to the Vyre to fix these issues. Vyres now can walk in the sun with no issue as it’s no longer detrimental but has the trade off of being super flammable. Which I think is a real good thing that balances out all the new powers they have. Vyres now have options to go into, they can go Nobel, Lover, Feral or even Biter. These new branches were a good addition because it allows people’s Vyre’s to be somewhat more different from one another. Along with these changes to Vyre strengths, they no longer had super strength which is a relatively good thing. The new changes traded the upgraded strength for more abilities which was a real good way to tweak that issue. Of course some issues are still in the new system but that’s being tweaked as we go along. The new system also fixed the issues of going up the ranks, now there being 3 new ways to go up those ranks. Now people don’t simply need to recruit others to go up a rank. This was a good quality of life change because now underlings can become just as powerful as those above them without the need to go out and turn others. So when looking at the Vyre rework we see that not only did it fix present issues but it also added new ideas that stayed true to what it was. Vyres in the old system was a monstrous curse, so this new one reflects it quite well. It was a successful rework that I didn’t hear many complaints about, it set out to fix Vyres and draw in more people towards it. Which it has done so greatly.

Comparing the rework of Vyres to that of Spiritblessed, I don’t believe it hit the mark. It changed in a way that didn’t stay true to its original self, its lore and went about balancing its powers by simply nerfing them drastically. The key of the rework seems to be a heavy focus on flavour, we went from Fire blessed being able to walk on lava and throwing fireballs. To be able to withstand hotter environments, hand and feet immunity to fire and make a small flame at their fingertips. A nerf in the abilities but allowing more aesthetic changes. Spiritblessed used to be quite powerful when you reached the higher tiers, we’ve lost that ability for simple aesthetic and flavour. It feels no different from a character getting a tattoo. We removed the ability for them to cast spells simply because of the new rework for magic, I personally think that Spiritblessed should be able to cast spells. The reason for this being that three big powers on the server are Divine, Arcane and Elementals. Divine are granted their powers from their god and their god has major impacts on the lore of the server. Arcane get the power from themselves and are able to affect the server in quite large ways similar to that of Divine. Elementals are also a huge thing on this server, there are some elementals that I'm sure not even the Divine can deal with, or least be bothered to fight them. But out of the three, elementals don’t seem to have any real impact however in the old system they did. They used to have quite strong powers and make a character quite powerful that one could argue was on par with Adept and tier 3 of Divine. Now though Spiritblessed were simply nerfed to the ground to focus more on the flavour and aesthetic that they brought.

For every rework there seemed to be a grandfathering or move in the power. Vyre’s who had high chains can shift their power over into consumed. In the new magic rework characters who are at Adept can shift their powers over towards the new system and start off high. Even in hollowcrafting people were able to grandfather in their experience to reflect their ic knowledge. However when it comes to Spiritblessed those who are at higher tiers are simply stripped of power, growing weaker and never being able to achieve higher power. We went from Spiritblessed being a quite interesting and powerful alternative to the big three to being nothing but flavour. We shifted away from the spell casting and from what I can gather simply because staff didn’t wish to give Spiritblessed spells and wanted that to be more of a magic thing. Originally Spiritblessed was something staff didn’t need to monitor, you didn’t need a prayer log to get your power it was something you can give yourself. They would come in and move you into a higher tier when your character deserved it. Maybe they didn’t wish to come in and update peoples powers and wanted Spiritblessed to be something they didn’t need to look over. In which case I understand but the tiers of strength could still be there. We already have a self-governed system through Vyres that staff don’t really need to pay that much attention too, so why can’t we have a similar system to that of Spiritblessed?

The Spiritblessed rework is one that I feel didn’t quite hit the mark, it's a step in the right direction but there needs to be more. We can’t leave this system as it is as a simple flavour thing, I would prefer us going back to the old system or at least an attempt to adopt the two. Personally, I really liked the fact that Spiritblessed had endless casts/abilities. They already had a limited amount of spells they could use so giving them one they can use over and over again was good. We still do have the ability to cast spells an infinite amount of times with the small abilities, but those abilities at the end of the day are nothing but flavour. Spiritblessed shouldn’t simply be flavour like a tattoo, they should have an impact upon the server and be a new option of power that people can go into.

This is what I think about the current Spiritblessed, if you disagree feel free to reply here or PM on Discord if you don’t want to clog the thread. If any of this is wrong feel free to correct me. I wanted to say more but this is already long enough.
 

Adam/Byrne

Adam
Legend
Pronouns
He/Him, They/Them
Byrne_Nisovin
Byrne_Nisovin
Legend
Many things have been said in the thread already that I agree with, I believe that I should throw a response in this thread regardless because I have my own thoughts on rework as a whole.

To begin I think we need to ask ourselves why this rework happened. This is just going to be speculation from me, so don’t take what I say as what the Staff think. I believe the reason Spiritblessed were reworked was due to multiple factors. They weren’t played that much or brought up that much in rp, many people were turned off by the idea that becoming a Spiritblessed essentially “killed” your character off. As reaching higher tiers would drastically alter your emotions and personality. Example being Fire blessed at consumed being much more aggressive. From what I heard from others this pushed them away from the idea of becoming a permanent Spiritblessed. They’d get the first tier, rp it out for a bit but then get it cured as keeping it longer would’ve risked changing their character drastically. This in my opinion and from what I’ve gathered, lead people to not really want to play Spiritblessed unless it was on a character made for becoming consumed. One they didn’t really mind throwing away to this power.

The second reason as to why I believe Spiritblessed were reworked was to tweak/fix their passives and abilities. Whether this be because some abilities were too op, written weirdly and in a way that might’ve been confusing or it conflicted and raised questions with other lore on the server. I can understand why Spiritblessed were reworked because they weren’t getting that much rp. As well as their current powers were hard to balance. Maybe also the lore they brought was another contributing factor to their rework. So a rework was made to try and make Spiritblessed more impactful on the server similar to Vyres. Again this is all just speculation based on what I’ve heard and seen.

What should the goal of a rework be though? In my opinion I believe that when a rework happens it should fix things that are broken/need tweaking, bring more people into it and try to stay true to what it originally was. An example of a recent rework is the Vyre rework. In the old system of Vyres there were issues with their powers and their impact on rp in general. Issues such as their strength made them quite hard to fight especially when it was such a drastic buff. There were also issues in the process of ranking up, wanting to rank up was a difficult task to do since you needed big chains to do so. If you wanted to reach the maximum level of abilities you’d need to get yourself a chain of 9. There were also issues with their interaction with the sun, this usually forced people to only rp at night IC since going out during the day would be deadly or just make you so weak overall. Unless of course you were the right bloodline then it just helped a bit.

So when Vyre’s got reworked they addressed these issues, added new lore as well as made tweaks to the Vyre to fix these issues. Vyres now can walk in the sun with no issue as it’s no longer detrimental but has the trade off of being super flammable. Which I think is a real good thing that balances out all the new powers they have. Vyres now have options to go into, they can go Nobel, Lover, Feral or even Biter. These new branches were a good addition because it allows people’s Vyre’s to be somewhat more different from one another. Along with these changes to Vyre strengths, they no longer had super strength which is a relatively good thing. The new changes traded the upgraded strength for more abilities which was a real good way to tweak that issue. Of course some issues are still in the new system but that’s being tweaked as we go along. The new system also fixed the issues of going up the ranks, now there being 3 new ways to go up those ranks. Now people don’t simply need to recruit others to go up a rank. This was a good quality of life change because now underlings can become just as powerful as those above them without the need to go out and turn others. So when looking at the Vyre rework we see that not only did it fix present issues but it also added new ideas that stayed true to what it was. Vyres in the old system was a monstrous curse, so this new one reflects it quite well. It was a successful rework that I didn’t hear many complaints about, it set out to fix Vyres and draw in more people towards it. Which it has done so greatly.

Comparing the rework of Vyres to that of Spiritblessed, I don’t believe it hit the mark. It changed in a way that didn’t stay true to its original self, its lore and went about balancing its powers by simply nerfing them drastically. The key of the rework seems to be a heavy focus on flavour, we went from Fire blessed being able to walk on lava and throwing fireballs. To be able to withstand hotter environments, hand and feet immunity to fire and make a small flame at their fingertips. A nerf in the abilities but allowing more aesthetic changes. Spiritblessed used to be quite powerful when you reached the higher tiers, we’ve lost that ability for simple aesthetic and flavour. It feels no different from a character getting a tattoo. We removed the ability for them to cast spells simply because of the new rework for magic, I personally think that Spiritblessed should be able to cast spells. The reason for this being that three big powers on the server are Divine, Arcane and Elementals. Divine are granted their powers from their god and their god has major impacts on the lore of the server. Arcane get the power from themselves and are able to affect the server in quite large ways similar to that of Divine. Elementals are also a huge thing on this server, there are some elementals that I'm sure not even the Divine can deal with, or least be bothered to fight them. But out of the three, elementals don’t seem to have any real impact however in the old system they did. They used to have quite strong powers and make a character quite powerful that one could argue was on par with Adept and tier 3 of Divine. Now though Spiritblessed were simply nerfed to the ground to focus more on the flavour and aesthetic that they brought.

For every rework there seemed to be a grandfathering or move in the power. Vyre’s who had high chains can shift their power over into consumed. In the new magic rework characters who are at Adept can shift their powers over towards the new system and start off high. Even in hollowcrafting people were able to grandfather in their experience to reflect their ic knowledge. However when it comes to Spiritblessed those who are at higher tiers are simply stripped of power, growing weaker and never being able to achieve higher power. We went from Spiritblessed being a quite interesting and powerful alternative to the big three to being nothing but flavour. We shifted away from the spell casting and from what I can gather simply because staff didn’t wish to give Spiritblessed spells and wanted that to be more of a magic thing. Originally Spiritblessed was something staff didn’t need to monitor, you didn’t need a prayer log to get your power it was something you can give yourself. They would come in and move you into a higher tier when your character deserved it. Maybe they didn’t wish to come in and update peoples powers and wanted Spiritblessed to be something they didn’t need to look over. In which case I understand but the tiers of strength could still be there. We already have a self-governed system through Vyres that staff don’t really need to pay that much attention too, so why can’t we have a similar system to that of Spiritblessed?

The Spiritblessed rework is one that I feel didn’t quite hit the mark, it's a step in the right direction but there needs to be more. We can’t leave this system as it is as a simple flavour thing, I would prefer us going back to the old system or at least an attempt to adopt the two. Personally, I really liked the fact that Spiritblessed had endless casts/abilities. They already had a limited amount of spells they could use so giving them one they can use over and over again was good. We still do have the ability to cast spells an infinite amount of times with the small abilities, but those abilities at the end of the day are nothing but flavour. Spiritblessed shouldn’t simply be flavour like a tattoo, they should have an impact upon the server and be a new option of power that people can go into.

This is what I think about the current Spiritblessed, if you disagree feel free to reply here or PM on Discord if you don’t want to clog the thread. If any of this is wrong feel free to correct me. I wanted to say more but this is already long enough.
Amazingly written, would double agree if i could.
 

RagingLunacy

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
Hollicynthea
Hollicynthea
Lover
As someone who's been in Spiritblessed all the way to Consumed up until the Vyre rework required a choosing of either of the two. allow me to present my viewpoint on Spiritblessed before and after.

So the things that were intriguing about old Spiritblessed:
I liked the fact it was a clear system with pros, cons and thematic alterations to both personality and appearance.
As has been mentioned in another post, having this balance of more severe effects rather than small boons and negative counters while allowing free use of said effects and powers without casting limits or a daily SP count was rather neat. It wasn't like you were broken powerful either since being a Spiritblessed gave you strong counters in case the character went bonkers with the powers.
Again, the themes were clear and I do feel they've done well in keeping those in the current rework.
I did also like the idea of the higher the right, the stronger and more elaborate the pros and cons became.
And on another note, allowing the players to go into this system through their own effort, through RPing out scenarios that would see their character forcefully get possessed, or attempt to strike some sort of deal with an elemental.

Things I was mixed on with the old Spiritblessed:
The ticking time bomb setup.
So unlike both Blessed and Mages (Let's not count Vyres since they got their Spiritblessed-esque rank system in the rework long after Spiritblessed existed), Spiritblessed had no clear criteria of progress other than it seemed that hitting certain 'milestones' of gratuitous ability usage got the character falling deeper into the grasp of the elemental.
Now while it was an interesting concept to have this 'risky' bond with an Elemental with special perks in exchange (along with its weaknesses), the system basically came down to, don't use these new abilities if you don't want to get closer to Consumed. So people either had to accept they'd get consumed if they wanted to keep the elemental around, had to get rid of it regardless, or just had to not bother interacting with the system.
Honestly, that is probably why Spiritblessed didn't have quite a longevity unlike Mages, Blessed and even Vyres. Very early on they were already seen as bad due to the nature of the elementals and the eventual consumed state people would reach. After it was no longer flavor of the month and people who just wanted to test the waters had their fun (or didn't), not many Spiritblessed were seen anymore at all from what I can tell.

What I didn't quite like in hindsight about old Spiritblessed:
The situation surrounding rank progress and what it meant to be consumed.
While the ticking time bomb scenario was interesting, the fact it was the only outcome felt kind of unfortunate and it seemed to sort of break the narrative depending on how the player set up their origin of becoming Spiritblessed.
We had to operate on the narrative that regardless of forceful possession or mutual agreement, all the elementals seeking hosts would eventually overtake the host unless removed regardless of this. Which, as mentioned previously, is likely why people didn't quite feel alright with either being Spiritblessed, staying Spiritblessed or even having other people around they be Spiritblessed, especially IC family/friends/etc.
In the end, this seemed to have made Spiritblessed a short term system in my eyes, where the players would either have to end up not using the flavor and perks it gave them as to not rank up too fast, get rid of the elemental before long because it'd be more trouble than its worth.. especially as others would actively try to get rid of spiritblessed or dissuade them.. or you'd have situations where people would hit Consumed and either find that they'd meet their end fast either by those trying to 'save' them or because their elemental type was too dangerous or volatile to leave unchecked and on the loose (essentially freeing them all the same). Or find themselves with limited RP opportunities because their consumed state either put them in a situation where they no longer sought to interact with others or weren't able to be in places where those people actively were, or people no longer sought to want to interact with them.

What I like about the rework in comparison:
The themes are kept in place and still make sense for all the types. In essence, current Spiritblessed feels to me like the lowest rank of the old system, with bits and pieces brought in from rank 2 and even a bit of rank 3 to expand the effects a bit than what an old rank 1 Spiritblessed had.
Personal choices. I love that we have more choices on what effects happen to our characters in terms of personality and appearance. Whether it's a particular personality change thats more intense or just a few different minor alterations.. that we can choose if we have all possible physical changes happen or only one or two.. and that even there we have a few different details to choose between as well.

What I would like to see if they were to expand on current Spiritblessed?
My main things would be, should it ever be decided that Spiritblessed is going to be either further fine tuned or may see a return of more ranks... is that perhaps ranks or anything expanding their power should have proper criteria beyond just using the elemental's abilities a lot. (Aka, random thought, hitting that milestone but also needing to for instance visit a particular location tied to an elemental's.. element, for them to 'power up').
Also I'd find important to note is that if things like this happen, it'd be interesting to not be stuck down the 'ticking time bomb' path again. and instead have there be a narrative option between 'parasite' or a more 'symbiotic' relation between host and elemental, where the Elemental just isn't hell bent on consuming their host once it gets powerful enough. This would also open more narratives of various natured Elementals rather than all of them acting singlemindedly in a detrimental way to their hosts.

A bit long there, but these are my thoughts for now.
 
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