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State of Events (Q2 2016)

Archbishop

Faith prevail
Retired Staff
Archbishop
Archbishop
The fact that you want a silent community that shuts ups and only praises your work tells me all I need to know. Our arguments aren't shitposting, they're genuine concerns from community members. This mindset is appalling.
There is a vast difference between the constructive criticism that he is asking of us and the 'silent and passive' community that you think he is saying.

Also, there is a little matter called 'tact', one may disagree with others, but the manner in which one does so often is telling of that individual. Most of the disagreements I've read in this thread, read like petty swipes rather than well-articulated and constructed responses with points and support.
 

Azur

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
A_Z_U_R
A_Z_U_R
Lover
So essentially concerns are now shitposting, and trying to bring up ways in order to fix things is just the ungrateful children whining, I'd assume. What I'm curious of, is why did it take 6 pages of a thread before there was any response as to all of the different opinions and criticisms? It's not like this thread wasn't open about wanting answers. You said something along the lines of no one asking you personally, but you could have jumped in and said something regardless of people asking you.

Honestly, this thread and all of the arguments on it have gotten old. Staff or player alike, all of this really is really just two sides bickering at each other and calling it shitposting. The only actual discussion that I even found to be somewhat interesting to read, or at all helpful was between Dee and Dummy.
T Most of the disagreements I've read in this thread, read like petty swipes rather than well-articulated and constructed responses with points and support.
Which goes for both sides, I'd say.

All in all, this thread is an eyesore on the forums. Especially when people always try to make the excuse that things should be 'taken to a convo' to be discussed...yet not once did anyone here say: "Hey, let's all discuss this together to work it out guys."
 

Jstar

Exitus acta probat
Lore Staff
Good
Staff
JstarGames
JstarGames
Good
Well damn.

I've been here longer than all but one of the current staff members (yes, I'm talking about being old again, I do that a lot, deal with it or don't, your choice). I've seen all of them progress from a player to the staff team and how that responsibility has changed the way they conduct themselves publicly. It is because of this that I can tell that the events of the recent months have stretched them paper thin, mentally. What they do here on HW has and will always be volunteer work, volunteer work that they very rarely get praised or thanked for. They're physically breaking their backs to try and cater to the wants and needs of as many players as they can. Of course someone is going to be upset by the way a certain issue is handled but that's life, get used to it.

There's a monumental difference between constructive criticism and the general shitposting / subversive angst that usually takes place on the forums these days. We're all guilty of it and will no doubt continue to be guilty of it for months to come. Pouring all your emotions into a post that you know will hurt someone's feelings just isn't acceptable. Calmly putting across your argument will convey your opinion far better than throwing around shade left and right at every possible opportunity.

This is a community and a family, it always has been. In a community, promoting a positive atmosphere in which people feel comfortable and content should be of the highest priority. Maybe it's because I've grown up here, but I just miss how things used to be. There was a support network here whenever I needed it, an escape hatch that I was excited to use when life got too stressful. What happened? What went wrong? Where did all this toxicity come from?

Together we can put our best foot forward. Clique bullshit and drama is something I expected from high school, but not here. Every single one of you is better than this.
 

dUMMY

Dead Man Walking
Dummyplug
Dummyplug
Impressive. Quite a lot has been said on this thread, some of it true and some not. Some of it appropriate and some not. I've been purposefully silent for a couple of reasons. To begin, responses were coming in so fast that I could not keep up. They've remained frequent for quite some time, so in the interest of making sure everybody had an opportunity to express their opinions, I thought I'd wait until this thread cools down. It has. Somewhat. More like it's circular. Close enough.

Oh, boy is there a lot of misconception. Yes, the doors are locked, yes, if the Bastions are completed there's a particular order, and yes there are both OOC and IC reasons for all of this. The IC reasons are SPOILER. Yes, you need previous stones to get into the later Bastions. No, you don't need Clain specifically. Oh, and you don't have to run the Bastions at all. Wanna kill Clain? Try. Wanna fight Clain's cause? That's up to you. Don't wanna tell Clain you found a Bastion? That works. Wanna support Clain? Sounds good. Wanna start a war over whether to help him? All part of the campaign. Don't want to participate in the efforts to get to the stones? Fine.

We have given you lot the freedom to do these things, yet here I am listening to you guys whine about us not letting you. Did you TRY any of it? Nope.

Here's another grand observation. 6 pages, this thread is now 6 pages. Not ONCE did anybody ask me to clarify anything. You asked for transparency on a thread ABOUT transparency, but you guys never asked me to clarify anything. You all assumed that you couldn't do things, so you didn't try things. Guess what!? That's metagaming! You made an OOC assumption that you HAD to play along, but this whole time you've had the freedom to shape the campaign, you just didn't try it.

Of course, now that I've told you you don't have to play along with Clain likely means there will be more attempts on disrupting his cause, which in turn might cause his supporters to defend him. Gee, I wonder if that was one of the possible outcomes...

The point is, there's a LOT more depth to this campaign than you all are giving it credit for. Hundreds of hours have been spent preparing this thing. If I billed out my time alone, I'd probably be past a full time job. There are loads of files with instructions for all the teams, guides for how to play some of the characters, and contingencies and possible outcomes. We've put the work into making this a really rich story.

I'm appalled by the tone, the tenacity, the gall of this thread. I've read every comment, and quite frankly I'm ashamed. You don't trash-talk (some might put it more gently and say "nitpick") somebody's work like this, in front of them, without asking for their input. You want to give feedback on events? Fine. I've asked for constructive criticism (on a different thread). Not much of this thread is constructive. Most of it is misconception and what is perceived to be "wrong." I don't see much about what we can do to make it "right." What I do see is six pages of players being inconsiderate and argumentative toward each other, toward staff, and toward this campaign and by extension me.

We're lucky we even have a server campaign. Trying to make a lore-compliant campaign consistent with server goals in mind is worse than a root canal. Trying to keep all the spoilers, well, spoilers, is equally challenging. Staff was doing well and cooperating with each other toward a common goal. Then we get to a locked door.

A locked door. That’s what all this fighting is about. One group is mad because there’s an IC mechanism in place to stop people from completing Bastions without the rest of the server. The same group is complaining that it’s been 43 days since the last Bastion. They’re the same ones that bitched about the first Bastion, saying it didn’t involve enough people. They’re the same ones that inspired Altera Alive, a specifically interactive chapter of the campaign specifically designed to weed out the necessity of a quest giver.

The original campaign had a quest giver and no Altera Alive. The original campaign had a Bastion once a month and way less freedom. The original campaign was changed to meet the concerns of this community. We changed it because the community didn’t want a quest giver. We brought in Altera Alive because the community wanted to be engaged. Everything was working fine. Then, one group encountered a locked door.

And here we are, arguing once again about the direction of the campaign. People are throwing the kitchen sink at events, which means at me, and I struggle to think “If only I had done it my way instead of listened to community feedback.” But it was my choice. The buck stops with me. I made a decision to strive to provide a better campaign. I was transparent. I asked for criticism. I listened. I made adjustments. And we got to a locked door.

The full details of the campaign are behind a locked door (more like a locked google folder). I kept the full details secret, except for those who needed to know. Much like actors and support staff in a TV show don’t know the ending, so do most of the staff not know the end of the campaign. There’s very good reason for it, but I’m at a situation where I’m not at liberty to share the end. Just wait and see. Once the whole thing is over, you’ll understand.

But the information stays locked. The door stays locked until circumstances lead to opening it. There’s IC mechanism to explain it all. The attempt to complete the second Bastion is coming, though. Just be patient. The answers you seek are coming.

Some of you have asked for things to be “fixed”. I don’t really get how it can be fixed in the way you desire. If we let small groups open and explore the bastion and get stones, then it’s not inclusive in the way you want. But if we don’t let small groups open and explore the bastions and get the stones, then apparently Altera Alive is a waste. Except it’s not a waste because the Bastions are being found and the next Bastions can be explored if we get that far.

To say the journey to finding the Bastions is a waste is like saying that Tolkien’s The Two Towers is a waste because while they walked toward Mount Doom they didn’t get there yet. If you read The Two Towers by itself, it is pretty pointless. But it’s thankfully part of a trilogy, and that trilogy has an ending (looking at you George R.R. Martin).

Wait for an ending. Read Return of the King. Wait for the context before you pass judgment. Speaking of passing judgment and offering feedback. Do it with a bit more tact. Turn it into an intellectual discourse. Show some respect to the people who work their asses off for your entertainment. If you don’t want to do those things, then be sure to accept the consequences of your actions.

That’s really pretty important, to accept the consequences of your actions. What’s even more important is to think about and accept consequences even before acting. The consequences of shit-posting volunteers is making said volunteers feel like shit. And right now I feel like shit.

It makes me not want to help you. It makes me not want to try to “fix” things. It makes me want to walk away. Which is what I’m doing. You asked for a fix. Here you go. I hereby resign from events. I can’t fix this because it’s not broken. Our community is broken, and I’m tired of trying to entertain people who are ungrateful and rude. To borrow from a colleagues’ statement, if I conjured heaven you’d turn it to hell.

I'll turn over the planning files to the new coordinator, whoever that is. Som and Cherry also have access to it. Though its a distinct possibility that the whole fucking thing gets voided and all that hard work goes to waste. For all of our sakes, I hope that doesn't happen, but that's not my call. Seems like the loudest contrarians think our work is already going to waste, so maybe it doesn't matter.

If we're going to be sustainable, not just in events but as a community, then we can't be abrasive like this anymore. That's not how the world works and that's not how this community should work. If it's not events its war rules, its consent rules, its alt rules, its revive rules, its promotions and demotions. We need a paradigm shift away from a culture that accepts shitposting as the norm, away from a community that views it acceptable to openly criticize staff's hard volunteer work to keep you lot entertained. We need to turn into a community that is grateful for what it has. Right now we're far, far from that.

I'm not the only staff member who's tired of this. The current toxic attitude of some in this server is literally tearing this community apart.
I kinda really want you to stay. :c
 

Elz

hmm
Staff member
Admin
Very Sweet
I've not been able to reply to this at all, really. I've tried a few times but I just don't know what to say.
At the end of the day, it's an event that involves the whole server in some way, optional or not. It's more fun for some than others, thats fine too. No matter the concerns, its a step up from months back when the last giant complaint was the lack of events.
These days I struggle to fit in an event on a weekend because they're everywhere. Thats improvement. No one is perfect, the staff team isnt and the community isnt either.
I'm admittedly a bit sad to see all of what Anti said, concluded by his resignation, to end in nitpicking. Or, I see it as that. Snipping bits of his post to say your piece, disregarding the amount of fucking effort people obviously put into something only to dismiss it because you don't like it.

It's a damn shame.
Couldnt agree more with Jstar but felt I had to say my own bit eventually.

And a massive thanks to all the staff for the effort they put into HW. It's voluntary, its stressful, and we all make mistakes. Doesnt mean you arent all really godamn applaudable for putting up with it.

Edit: I'm not saying that speaking your mind is bad, either. Just try and do it a bit nicer and people will be generally happier to deal with you and your concerns.
 
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Archbishop

Faith prevail
Retired Staff
Archbishop
Archbishop
I would like to state, that I don't like any of this quibbling. I very much love this server and do not want to see any permanent and irreparable harm come to it as a result of the atmosphere that has reared it's head in this thread. I understand that from time to time I have caused some of this angst and I would encourage others to do their part to help in the continued growth and survival of this server as a better community overall.
 

Sir Saltington

Lord of Altera
I've been on this server for almost 7 months, and I have seen threads like these happen again and again. Finally, even though I'm just another ordinary player, I'm going to say what I think and see about all this. In my opinion, this is all stupid. I come from a server were players didn't get rights there, players weren't allowed to do what they want, and staff were absolutely corrupt most of the time. That never worked out, that staff were complete jerks, and nothing got done. What I see here is staff actually trying to work with the players, actually trying to do something, but everyone has a breaking point. I'm seeing a group of players who are whining like pampered brats because they don't like this, or they don't like that, or blah blah blah. Not only that, but the problem is the staff can't take seeing all their work time and time again be spat on, just because it isn't 'perfect' to those who want it.

I would like to think my argument is valid, that my voice has a say, my information is mostly correct, because I've talked and hanged out with both sides of the fence. Most of the staff on this server are amazing, and are probably the best staff members I've ever had experience with, which is great. Now, when I said players earlier I didn't mean all players, only the certain few that continue to whine about how staff don't do anything or how what they do isn't good enough. Not only that, but the staff members even have the system up where they try to make it as both player and staff have the same rights and are no different, so what this dissolves down into is bullying. I'll be honest, I hate using the word bullying because it is over-used, has no meaning anymore, and is really just mediocre, but it's the only word I know that I can use.

The problem with the certain players who keep whining, is that they are the ones who won't get off their ass and actually try different things, but instead just complain that their way isn't working. I could be wrong about this, no one is certain to always be correct, and everyone makes mistakes. I admire staff because of how much shit they have to deal with, and how they continue to try and help even though each time certain people in the community keep going at their throats. In my opinion, I don't think staff should put up with it and they should deal with the problem, but in the end all that does is make it worse. Now, I'm not saying staff don't make mistakes, and I'm not saying the players don't give good arguments even if it is shit-posting, all I'm saying is people should stop waiting to be spoon fed and actual voice if something is wrong. Do you even know how annoying it is when someone doesn't like you, or something you do, but instead of telling you and trying to work it out peacefully they all of a sudden snap at you, and then in the end it can't even be solved because it's gone too far?

I'll wrap this up, because anyone who decided to read this wall is probably going to have some eye problems. This information isn't suppose to all be correct, and hell I'm sure I'm even being bias here and there, but that is what an opinion is. I'd rather say how I feel now about all this now, then snap at the people bitching at staff. In all honesty, I know how much of an asshole I sound in all this, but I'd rather be one because I'm trying to support what I think is the better side then just be one just to be one. (Sorry for all the text to anyone who reads, I just got into the moment.)
 

Centurion

Dark Council Elite
Giving well worded arguments and requests is not shitposting. Spinning things so that it appears as though it is such only worsens the situation.
 

Azur

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
A_Z_U_R
A_Z_U_R
Lover
Why is this thread still getting responses that are only here to argue that one side is wrong or right.
 

Jazzper

Hi [Unsuspecting Comment], I'm Jazzper
Legend
Blessed
Jasper151627237
Jasper151627237
Legend
Can this please just stay civilized?

I get that there's some players that immediately find a Bastion and want in, but you lot did ask for an interactive event.
Well, that's what you got. It's so interactive, even, that you need other groups to find different Bastion stones before your door gets unlocked.
It's even an event that lasts over a month with neat mini-events and then Altera Alive, isnt that kind of neat? To have like 5 of those events every month as opposed to the zero there were before? (due to there not really being means for a real campaign, other than some cool events)
Staff can indeed sometimes not do an event at a time, and some events lead to nothing.
Staff members are, however, still humans with need for oxygen, saturation, hydration and bathroom breaks. Yes, really.
They have jobs/school, they have hobbies, they have kids/friends/family.
The reason some events lead to nothing is because they are what you wanted, interactive with an outcome that has not been determined beforehand.
There is a chance it's an action-packed story to be told for centuries and there's a chance it's a stroll in the park.

To be fair, one of the Altera Alive events I was at (Hieraxian Baron and bodejodel ) didn't have exploding mountains or armies of dread swooping in from the sun.
What did it have? A nice leasurely stroll with bears behind us and butterflies divebombing crocodiles.
Events should not all just be boom, boom, cut, rend, screech, tear.
Events that are interactive like this and not determined beforehand are enjoyeable as well.

The first Bastion event? Yeah, it was hectic. Over 30 people jumping through eachother to find the exit.
But, I actually enjoyed it since it had great RP. It didn't really bug me that there were 6 people standing inside me OOCly, since I was RPing and helping others cross things.
So, staff, I salute you guys. It's really hectic doing such a good job as you guys did doing the events while there were over 30 people at a time flooding both RP and Local.

Not to shitpost those that started this/previous threads. However, I do wish to say "You got what you wanted, so why suddenly not want it anymore?"
This is just my take on this.
 
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Azur

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
A_Z_U_R
A_Z_U_R
Lover
Can this please just stay civilized?

I get that there's some players that immediately find a Bastion and want in, but you lot did ask for an interactive event.
Well, that's what you got. It's so interactive, even, that you need other groups to find different Bastion stones before your door gets unlocked.
It's even an event that lasts over a month with neat mini-events and then Altera Alive, isnt that kind of neat? To have like 5 of those events every month as opposed to the zero there were before? (due to there not really being means for a real campaign, other than some cool events)
Staff can indeed sometimes not do an event at a time, and some events lead to nothing.
Staff members are, however, still humans with need for oxygen, saturation, hydration and bathroom breaks. Yes, really.
They have jobs/school, they have hobbies, they have kids/friends/family.
The reason some events lead to nothing is because they are what you wanted, interactive with an outcome that has not been determined beforehand.
There is a chance it's an action-packed story to be told for centuries and there's a chance it's a stroll in the park.

To be fair, one of the Altera Alive events I was at (Hieraxian Baron and bodejodel ) didn't have exploding mountains or armies of dread swooping in from the sun.
What did it have? A nice leasurely stroll with bears behind us and butterflies divebombing crocodiles.
Events should not all just be boom, boom, cut, rend, screech, tear.
Events that are interactive like this and not determined beforehand are enjoyeable as well.

The first Bastion event? Yeah, it was hectic. Over 30 people jumping through eachother to find the exit.
But, I actually enjoyed it since it had great RP. It didn't really bug me that there were 6 people standing inside me OOCly, since I was RPing and helping others cross things.
So, staff, I salute you guys. It's really hectic doing such a good job as you guys did doing the events while there were over 30 people at a time flooding both RP and Local.

Not to shitpost those that started this/previous threads. However, I do wish to say "You got what you wanted, so why suddenly not want it anymore?"
This is just my take on this.
Dude, let the thread end already. Two of the players arguing as part of the 'player group' have left, Anti stepped down from events, and I'm fairly certain Niah is leaving/taking some sort of break with her brief absence post. I'll say again, this thread is an eye-sore, and people need to stop making it relevant.

*Edit* I should say that what I mean by listing all of the people, is that this thread has already had an impact. I said before, people need to chill; and to do that this thread needs to stop getting posts repeating the same shit.
 

Jazzper

Hi [Unsuspecting Comment], I'm Jazzper
Legend
Blessed
Jasper151627237
Jasper151627237
Legend
Dude, let the thread end already. Two of the players arguing as part of the 'player group' have left, Anti stepped down from events, and I'm fairly certain Niah is leaving/taking some sort of break with her brief absence post. I'll say again, this thread is an eye-sore, and people need to stop making it relevant.

*Edit* I should say that what I mean by listing all of the people, is that this thread has already had an impact. I said before, people need to chill; and to do that this thread needs to stop getting posts repeating the same shit.
Azur, if people do not want repeated messages due to the opinions of several members overlapping, one should not make such a post.
If people can fire remark after remark at Staff, then why are others not allowed to nullify those?
These are opinions, people can do with them what they want.

Edit:
Replying "do not reply" does not really help, for it merely bumps the thread again
No one replied to what I said
(Not meant to be disrespectful)
 

Azur

Lord of Altera
Lover
Legend
A_Z_U_R
A_Z_U_R
Lover
Azur, if people do not want repeated messages due to the opinions of several members overlapping, one should not make such a post.
If people can fire remark after remark at Staff, then why are others not allowed to nullify those?
These are opinions, people can do with them what they want.
People already made posts defending staff, and this isn't even an argument that needs to be made anymore. Those opinions? Yeah, they led to people leaving and getting upset. You're not joining into an argument where it's only been one side taking shots at the other. It was discussed and argued by both sides, and people 'nullified' whatever posts from both sides that they saw fit to.

Do whatever you want with your opinion, but if the argument starts up again and more people leave the already dwindling population, and more staff leave as a result of this? Good luck.
 

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
Was going to criticize the reopening of the thread but that would have been reopening the thread. Now that it has?

Come on.
 

Elt

Lord of Altera
Retired Staff
Was going to criticize the reopening of the thread but that would have been reopening the thread. Now that it has?
Come on.
The first part of your signature is so fitting right now--

Dammit, I did it.
 
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