Medieval & Fantasy Minecraft Roleplaying

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The Hollowworld Guide to Brewery

NIAH

The Lurker
Retired Staff
Alright. Here is what I may do. I am going to make a second thread to gauge interest so I know the scale of interest and how Brewery is actually used.

For now, the new set of drinks I have written are under an experimental phase.

We are going to be trying some new things with the plugin.

For now, I ask for you guys to have some faith in me. I will give Brewery the attention it deserves. :)
Oh, nono- I don't mean to knock what you're doing. I have faith in you and know you can handle the plugin. My concerns are about the plugin itself and why I don't use it. You know I love you bb.
 

Ced

Mountain Bum
Merchant
Retired Staff
MossyMorel
MossyMorel
Merchant
For the sake of you hearing feedback, Ruul, I plan to be active with brewing, and I don't really care about the logging of 'official' or custom recipes. If someone fumbles into a recipe that is 'trademarked' by a certain region, isn't that a good reflection of what could realistically happen in a medieval brewing world? And weren't there loads of 'snake-oil' and counterfeit concoctions that made the rounds back in the day?

We used to have a stamping system for trademarked goods right? Like a way for guilds to create sigils or stamps on crafted items that could be traced back to their manufacturer. Why not use that system to mark 'official' drinks? So, if you held a bottle of Queen's Brew and the name of the item was "[QP] Queen's Brew" then you know it's official because of the [QP] stamp. I have no idea how it could be implemented, though, without easy get-arounds (like just renaming the bottle in an anvil).
 

Jazzper

Hi [Unsuspecting Comment], I'm Jazzper
Legend
Blessed
Jasper151627237
Jasper151627237
Legend
I think it falls under the 'Dont be an arse' clause.
I use [T] for Thordil's crafts, as an OOC reassurance that he actually made it and it's his quality. Pretending it's made by him while made by a worse smith, itd still be worse, so using the mark would essentially be OOC deceit. As for booze, trust me, you can discern a fine French wine from a supermarket's cheap stock by taste.
 

Ced

Mountain Bum
Merchant
Retired Staff
MossyMorel
MossyMorel
Merchant
I think it falls under the 'Dont be an arse' clause.
I use [T] for Thordil's crafts, as an OOC reassurance that he actually made it and it's his quality. Pretending it's made by him while made by a worse smith, itd still be worse, so using the mark would essentially be OOC deceit. As for booze, trust me, you can discern a fine French wine from a supermarket's cheap stock by taste.
However, a smith or wine-merchant of equal skill can produce less obvious fakes. I think it'd become difficult to police a situation where OOC deceit could be very easily disguised as IC counterfeiting.
 

Raal

Media Gal
Legend
Raalvara
Raalvara
Legend
If someone fumbles into a recipe that is 'trademarked' by a certain region, isn't that a good reflection of what could realistically happen in a medieval brewing world?
This is generally my thought. Counterfeit drinks are actually a pretty cool concept.


I think it falls under the 'Dont be an arse' clause.
I use [T] for Thordil's crafts, as an OOC reassurance that he actually made it and it's his quality. Pretending it's made by him while made by a worse smith, itd still be worse, so using the mark would essentially be OOC deceit. As for booze, trust me, you can discern a fine French wine from a supermarket's cheap stock by taste.
And this is likely how brewery will be enforced. Probably a lot like smithing. IC brewers make IC drinks. Sometimes people just give themselves swords for combat. Is that encouraged? No. But it is very difficult to authenticate whether a sword was custom made for every character.

Again, wee will see how things go after some testing.
 

Ced

Mountain Bum
Merchant
Retired Staff
MossyMorel
MossyMorel
Merchant
This is generally my thought. Counterfeit drinks are actually a pretty cool concept.
To play devils advocate, Niah raises a good point that someone loading up a chest shop with counterfeit "Queen's Brew" isn't exactly contributing to rich brewery roleplay, they're just trying to make in-game rads by hijacking someone's in-character IP. I suppose in cases like this, the lowest effort method of adjudication would be to handle it case by case. The owner of the chest shop might be an RP brewer with a shady past. On the contrary they might be someone who has no in-character reason to manufacture counterfeit alcohol. The outcome of such a case would presumably be different.
 

Jazzper

Hi [Unsuspecting Comment], I'm Jazzper
Legend
Blessed
Jasper151627237
Jasper151627237
Legend
However, a smith or wine-merchant of equal skill can produce less obvious fakes. I think it'd become difficult to police a situation where OOC deceit could be very easily disguised as IC counterfeiting.
Even then, it's best not to mess with OOC marks as they can be used to just keep track. Always welcome to make your own marks

Edit: If you get someone to buy a fake, the ooc mark on it doesnt matter
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
Nah, I don't think that's her concern. I think the concern is stopping people who shouldn't know or have the resources to make it, but do anyway (meta/powergaming).

If somebody works hard and has the ic means and capability of figuring out a competitors recipe, they still don't get to call it the same thing. I can't legally figure out coke's recipe and sell a product named coke. I can figure out a very similar recipe and call it Bill's cola. But the makers of competitive products, like pepsi, have the knowledge and resources to make a coke like product. So if somebody figures out queensport brew, and does so ic, they can make a similar product. But making the same thing and calling it the same thing is against the rules ic, just like it is against the law irl. There would be ic consequences if caught, just like counterfeiting. If not legitimately sourced, there would be meta/powergaming violations. There is a real concern for confusion of the source of props, and the rules should protect and incentivize people who make the products legitimately. Thus, my opinion is legit ic counterfeiting should only be attempted with the distinct understanding of ic consequences.

This goes back to my dont be a dick comment, though. Why would we counterfeit if we have the resources already to make our own distinct product.
Copyright does not exist yet in this era LMAO
 
7

7632

Guest
Copyright does not exist yet in this era LMAO
You're right, but I'm not sure why that's relevant, since the whole coke/pepsi recipe example is 1) trade secret, not copyright, and 2) an example. If you are trying to suggest guilds, associations, and craftsmen didn't mark their goods or keep trade secrets in "this era" you are sadly mistaken.
 
7

7632

Guest
For the sake of you hearing feedback, Ruul, I plan to be active with brewing, and I don't really care about the logging of 'official' or custom recipes. If someone fumbles into a recipe that is 'trademarked' by a certain region, isn't that a good reflection of what could realistically happen in a medieval brewing world? And weren't there loads of 'snake-oil' and counterfeit concoctions that made the rounds back in the day?

We used to have a stamping system for trademarked goods right? Like a way for guilds to create sigils or stamps on crafted items that could be traced back to their manufacturer. Why not use that system to mark 'official' drinks? So, if you held a bottle of Queen's Brew and the name of the item was "[QP] Queen's Brew" then you know it's official because of the [QP] stamp. I have no idea how it could be implemented, though, without easy get-arounds (like just renaming the bottle in an anvil).
Yes, counterfeit is a thing. But it better be icly substantiated, and the counterfeiter must know the consequences of being caught. If its not ic substantiated then its meta,power. I'm not sure how that can be managed any way other than case by case

Late edit, sorry was driving. To counterfeit there must be an original. How do we give out original custom recipes? Can anybody get one? The best I have come up with is an application process that ensures ic legitimacy. If somebody else has a better idea I am all ears.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
You're right, but I'm not sure why that's relevant, since the whole coke/pepsi recipe example is 1) trade secret, not copyright, and 2) an example. If you are trying to suggest guilds, associations, and craftsmen didn't mark their goods or keep trade secrets in "this era" you are sadly mistaken.
If you think that the “trade secrets” of this era can be that easily protected I’m not sure where to start. There is no distinct “secret chemical” that brewers can extract and use for half the stuff you’d want to make it unique.
 
7

7632

Guest
If you think that the “trade secrets” of this era can be that easily protected I’m not sure where to start. There is no distinct “secret chemical” that brewers can extract and use for half the stuff you’d want to make it unique.
Alright, based off your previous and now this response, you either did not read or do not understand my position. If you wish to further this discussion pm me. Let's not taint the integrity of this thread.
 

TheDeester

One so Bereft of Light
Lore Staff
Server Outreach
Evil
Staff
Shadow Hedgehog
Pronouns
He/Him
GrapeFlavDragons
GrapeFlavDragons
Evil
Alright, based off your previous and now this response, you either did not read or do not understand my position. If you wish to further this discussion pm me. Let's not taint the integrity of this thread.
I’m not going to PM you amigo. You either don’t understand how counterfeit works in the current schema of things or aren’t properly communicating. The integrity of a thread is not at risk because of a debate, it can easily be removed.
 

Raal

Media Gal
Legend
Raalvara
Raalvara
Legend
So uh.....

Update: The Apple Cider recipe doesn't actually work right now. Please don't waste your precious apples on this for now. Brewery is fickle about item ids. I will let you know when the recipe is working again. If you drink the resulting product, it will actually poison you.
 

Jazzper

Hi [Unsuspecting Comment], I'm Jazzper
Legend
Blessed
Jasper151627237
Jasper151627237
Legend
So uh.....

Update: The Apple Cider recipe doesn't actually work right now. Please don't waste your precious apples on this for now. Brewery is fickle about item ids. I will let you know when the recipe is working again. If you drink the resulting product, it will actually poison you.
Korog is not pleased with you all drinking His Apple Cider
 

Jazzper

Hi [Unsuspecting Comment], I'm Jazzper
Legend
Blessed
Jasper151627237
Jasper151627237
Legend
Nobody drinking that apple cider right now, fam. It broke AF.
And thus, Korog glanced down upon Altera as He heard the weeping of His most devout, only to see His Children devoid of Apple Cider
And so He weeped, casting down Golden Apple Mead upon Altera
 

Heie

Lord of Altera
Lore Staff
Legend
Staff
And thus, Korog glanced down upon Altera as He heard the weeping of His most devout, only to see His Children devoid of Apple Cider
And so He weeped, casting down Golden Apple Mead upon Altera
Entire Starfall campaign explained....
 
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