Ban Appeal- Antilogy

[7632]

Reason For Ban: As stated by Naelwyn, banned for "absolute refusal to change tack" after posting a thread challenging the behavior of a staff member and adamantly defending that position.

Reason For Appeal: Throughout the thread, I received no official warning or indication that my continual push on the subject would result in a ban. Furthermore, I was banned before being given an opportunity to read Naelwyn's final post on the thread. Finally, until now I have been denied the right to even appeal my ban, as a forum ban resulted in my inability to even be informed about the decision. I contend that all of these things are wrong and warrant my unban.

Apology For Regretful Conduct: I concede that the forum in which I protested a staff member's behavior was, in hindsight, inappropriate. I apologize for my error in judgment and I'm sorry for any undesirable consequences my behavior may have or actually caused. Although my actions were reactionary, I escalated an issue that could and should have been handled behind closed doors. At the time, I chose that forum purposefully and said I would take the consequences. At the present time, I feel those consequences are disproportionate and therefore unreasonable, as they ought not warrant a forum and server ban without notice or reason. I contend that silencing somebody's ability to gain prior notice and file subsequent appeal is not an appropriate way to punish anybody and forced me to use other avenues.

We are all human and we all make mistakes. I made a mistake in trying to use a public forum to change a behavior that I and others feel is inappropriate. Please understand that I said what I said because I care about the community and I care about how we, mere players, are treated. I cannot stand by idly while people are called "stupid" and their opinions are repressed or degraded. I know you don't agree with me, but please understand why I acted as I did.

By nature, I am a person who pursues improvement, whether it be internally or proximately. I calculated that a change in behavior would benefit the community and defended my beliefs, responding to each subsequent post thoughtfully. I tried not to use ad hominem and attempted to back up my beliefs with evidence and reason. I still contend that staff members should not be immune from criticism and will not back down from my belief. If that means I am not unbanned so be it.

I still contend that my intentions for the thread are misunderstood and object to the phrase "witch hunt", though upon review I understand why a reasonable person would misinterpret my purpose. I /was/ seeking to bring about a change which I believe would be for the better, and I remain unafraid to go against people in authority to oppose what I believe to be inappropriate or unwarranted behavior. Lacking standing or authority, I chose to attempt to disguise my intent using a praise and suggestions guise. That was a mistake that I regret, not simply because it didn't work but because it was wrong. I regret it and I'm sorry. I should have made a private discussion voicing my opinion on the matter and been not as persistent as I was.

In attempting to solicit change I pushed too hard in a forum too public and unintentionally obfuscated the very purpose of my thread. Under no circumstances did I expressly state or imply that the true subject of my thread should leave, be demoted, or suffer any sort of repercussions. I did not resort to flaming, either. I persistently suggested a change in behavior toward players would be beneficial for the community at large. I even admit several times throughout the thread that I made mistakes. I fail to understand why my criticism equates to a "witch hunt."

I have been contacted by people from this server's past and present who have praised me for saying what I said. I have been told that while the issue I protested is not old, I'm the first to protest it in the way I did. I wish to differentiate myself from those who believe I'm a hero or a martyr. I seek nothing but respect and fair treatment for all. I did what I believed was right, but in hindsight the way in which I approached it was inappropriate. For that I apologize. I do want to emphasize that my conclusion that the forum was inappropriate is circumstantial. There are certainly instances where it is appropriate to use a public forum, such as this apology. That being said, I would be happy to start a private conversation so that I may apologize to all offended parties in person.

I must apologize for poor word choice that made it appear as if I was starting a new server. That is most certainly not the case.

You will notice that I do not apologize for trying to solicit change or defending myself or others from what I believe is oppressive, unwarranted behavior. I truly believe that suppressing that behavior will lead to less drama, including responses like mine, which is better for the server. Please do not fault me for that belief.

I do, however, apologize for the forum I chose, the deception I attempted to employ, and the persistence I used in attempt to bring about change.

 

[cherbert]

for the record.. I wish for you to read through the original thread that was the catalyst for this entire debate and tell me exactly which comment that I made which you took issue with? I deny specifically calling anyone stupid and take great issue with you continually accusing me of doing so and this one point seems to be the catalyst for your entire crusade against my person and it is simply untrue.

 

[cherbert]

I have been contacted by people from this server's past and present who have praised me for saying what I said.

Like I give a flying fuck what they or anyone thinks. If you are going to persist on trying to question my behaviour or change me as a person then you won't be coming back. You are here to play on this server and it is a choice. Everyone has a choice. If anyone here doesn't like me then you know where the door is.

 

[Legion]

Think about what you are saying. You want me to get his permission to link to his page? That is not how the internet works.

As a (now retired) moderator on Minecraft Forums, I've run into the "attribution" problem plenty of times. Despite what Cherbert said, it's not "ridiculous" for a creative project to require people to ask permission before designating it as an official pack. I've taken the liberty to look into the Conquest author's licensing and noticed that 1) he maintains a list of servers who use it as their official pack 2) he is ok with it, but not a server redistributing it without his permission, and 3) he is ok with modification, but it has to be an overlay of his pack. Here's my source: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1452033-174-32x32-conquest-wip-weekly-updates/

I agree with Mokwar that it would be a nice gesture to ask permission, or at the very least to notify him. No, it's not technically required, but I think it would be appropriate.

Who said anything about re-distributing it or modifying it?

Dude, you're being rude and I don't appreciate it. If you read my post closely, I did not accuse you of intending to violate his terms. Note the part where I say "it's not technically required (for you to contact him)." That would be because I made the assumption that you DO NOT plan to redistribute the pack.

Im still trying to figure out how Cherbert was being rude.

Cherbert doesnt waste time writing beautiful mind-numbingly politically correct prose. He is blunt. He isn't going to let a bad idea slide by just because he doesn't want to hurt someones feelings. And thats a quality required of an executive. But I fail to see how he was being rude. (Until provoked) In point of fact, rereading the thread, Id argue you were the first one to have a snarky or negative attitude.

Im not sure if you deliberately misunderstood him, legitimately misunderstood him, or are simply sensitive, but you went way overboard on your response. Being this upset because you think someone was being offensive on the internet simply isnt worth it and I don't understand why this happened. On the internet I hardly expect this huge of a response when individuals insult another's race gender or beliefs. But because he disagreed with you on a texture pack proposal? I don't get it.

While its true it wasn't the appropriate forum for your criticism of Cherbert I still cannot for the life of me see what you are actually criticizing him for. Supposedly for being rude, but theres nothing he said thats particularly rude or offensive until well after youd begun being so yourself, and at that point he is allowed to be, hes not getting paid to be here. There is a world of difference between degrading someones opinions and disagreeing with someones opinions. Disagreement is stating that its wrong and why, as cherbert did, is allowed to do, and ought to do, as a server executive. Degrading only really applies to beliefs that are impossible or difficult to prove, or to when one provides no evidence or reason for their disagreement. He certainly wasnt doing that.

You say you don't apologize for "defending yourself" from unwarranted, oppressive behavior, but quite simply I fail to see any evidence that Cherbert's behavior was oppressive or unwarranted. If you still dont like it, that is your choice. Can't force you to play here and wouldn't want to force you to play here. If you really think Cherbert is going to ruin your ability to have fun then you are free to leave. But this server and community has lasted for over 3 years, with Cherbert at its helm the whole while. Based on empirical evidence I think its fair to conclude that, for at least the vast majority of people, they aren't bothered.

As to former members praising you.
Well
They are former members for a reason.
Obviously if they liked us they'd still be here, so their testimony is just confirmation bias.

 

[7632]

I have chosen not to substantively respond to any posts here as per the previous comments made that suggest this type of discussion should be held behind closed doors and because the rules state that players ought not post responses on ban appeals. Efforts to reach an understanding are being made and I would appreciate it if no more comments are made on this or related topics, ever.

I want to again point out that I do not hate anybody, I do not seek solace and rather differentiate myself from the comments of former and current players who praised me, this whole thing is prefaced on a misunderstanding, and that I'm taking steps to resolve it with involved parties. @Legion I appreciate your thoughtful challenge to my assessment, but I will not be responding here. If you want to press the issue, message me in private.

Finally, I assure you all that I will be issuing a more formal apology in private in the coming days. I'm going on a weekend road trip after my final tomorrow and will not be available to write a customary wall of text for at least a few days. But, it's coming.

Redacted for irrelevance. See post below.

 

[7632]

Screw it, studying can wait and this is important. Consider this my explanation of how and why I reacted and why I was off base.

Many of you do not know me very well, including Cherbert, because I have not been here very long. Know that I am a political philosophy major who is now a law school student. My whole life I've hated injustice and fought to protect and defend those to whom I feel are victims of said injustice. I'm fairly well versed in ethical theories and I stand strong for what I believe in. I'm going to law school to continue to expound upon those beliefs. You must understand me when I tell you that when I see a perceived or real injustice, I am compelled to act. To not act is, in my eyes, merely acknowledging that injustice. Some will call that sensitive, some will even call it a flaw. But it is who I am and I will not change. I started developing this idea when I founded PC's For Youth, an organization that has, since its founding, given hundreds of refurbished computers out to kids in the community who could not afford it. My motive was that I saw it was unfair for some to have the tools of the internet while others did not. I'm not a bad person; I'm just principled.

This means that when I meet a person that I perceive to be acting unjustly, I am likely going to act. It's why I've server hopped so much trying to find a place I can fit in, for there are many many servers that have legitimately shady owners. Cherbert is not one of those owners, and I intend to clear his name, and mine, from this mess.

When Cherbert called somebody's opinion "ridiculous" and I've been methodically trained to see that type of reaction as being unwarranted, I was bound by principle to respond in defense. I do not believe anybody's opinion is "ridiculous" and I am compelled to argue that point anywhere. It's a big reason why I don't partake in websites like reddit, 4chan, or imgur except to make jokes. You do not have to agree with what I did, but I want you to understand why this was destined to happen.

Recently in law school I've been studying a concept called "mens rea" which roughly translated means "guilty mind." The premise is that in order to actually be guilty of an undesirable action, one must intend to and actually (actus reus) carry out that action. In Cherbert's response, I saw an action that I disagreed with and called him out for it. What I forgot (I hope I didn't forget it on the exam) is the mens rea, for Cherbert did not intend to be rude.

In discussing the matter with Cherbert behind closed doors, I have learned more about him than what I have gleaned in interacting with him or studying the small sample size I have of his actions. When he responds bluntly and quickly, his intent is still good, even if his action might appear to others as not good. Cherbert is a blunt person, but he is not trying to be mean, he's trying to be blunt. It is a part of his nature, just like it is part of my nature to try to eradicate injustice.

I misinterpreted his intent because at the time I did not know him well enough to know otherwise. I dragged his name through the mud and very nearly (and undesirably) became a martyr for those who dislike him. Please understand why I did what I did; I believed what I was doing was right and my intentions were good. Cherbert also believed what he was doing was right and his intentions were also good. An immovable object met an unstoppable force. However, there is no reason for that force and object to be antagonists. Together, and united, we can accomplish so much more.

I want to put to rest any rumors or beliefs that I meant to or still mean to disrespect Cherbert. On the contrary, I admire him more than any of you know. In subsequent conversation, he's shown me that he knows what he is doing and is a respectful and thoughtful individual. If you need proof, you need only look to the fact that HW is still here. He knows what he's doing and I believe he is an inherently good person who happens to be blunt.

I need to remind myself that we are talking about a video game (the best one ever) and that there are much bigger issues in all of our lives than throwing fits about, in retrospect, nothing. I don't want you to think bad of Cherbert or me; I simply want you to understand why he said what he said and why I said what I said.

Ultimately, my analysis and subsequent reaction was based on a faulty sample size. I assure you that I've learned my lesson and will not be bringing up my point again, however warranted or unwarranted it was. You need not worry about another outburst from me, because I understand and respect Cherbert now and realize that I was out of line.

In the end, I've screwed up and I understand it's hurt my reputation, perhaps irreparably. The bigger challenge is not standing up for what you believe, but admitting you were wrong, and I hope this statement restores some credibility in me and all credibility in Cherbert. Let me prove to you all that I can help you grow, as I myself grow.

To any others who found my behavior commendable, I encourage you to reassess your opinions in Cherbert and base them around his many positive actions and his flawless intent and passion for this server. Learn from my mistake, I implore you.

To any others who found my behavior less than commendable, I encourage you to reassess your opinions in me. I don't want you to agree with what I did, I merely want you to understand why I acted the way I did. I will continue to object to what I see as injustice, that I cannot change. But I will be sure that said injustice is intentional before I act. I am sorry to those I disappointed and beg your forgiveness.

I would not have acted the way I did unless I truly believed what I was doing was right, for the matter is trivial. Similarly, I would not be appealing my ban unless I truly wanted to play in a community run by a person like Cherbert. Here I am, appealing, because I would be honored to play and work with Cherbert.

Edit: I corrected a physics error about immovable and unstoppable. Science is hard.