I'm building a PC and could use your help!

[Ced]

So my goal is to be at the end of this with a desktop PC that can handle pretty much any game (and also word processing, Skype, web browsing, youtube etc) but also have future expandability so that I can still use it for many years to come. The biggest hurdle is that, being a predominant Mac user, I don't know the first thing about PCs - could some of the tech-savvy community members of Hollow World help me out?

My main questions:

1. What sort of price tag am I looking at? I have a £650 budget but I can stretch higher.
2. Do I need to have it built for me or can a relative noob build a PC safely with instruction?
3. Does the build in this video seem viable? Would it be able to handle pretty much any game? The build starts at 3:50 and is around £1000 dollars (top end of my budget).

 

[Baron]

Linus is a terrible example since all his gear is devoted to the top end and isn't super meaningful for the average user.

Anyways, 650 GBP, lemme see what I can do.

 

[Baron]

Aight, got something pulled together:

High-end: This will max out every game made up to this point.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£174.98 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: MSI H97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£64.65 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£29.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£34.98 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£38.97 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 970 4GB Video Card (£239.99 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 ATX Mid Tower Case (£65.00 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£66.96 @ Aria PC)
Monitor: Asus VE247H 23.6" Monitor (£109.50 @ Aria PC)
Total: £825.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-14 23:24 GMT+0000

And much closer to your price range:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4370 3.8GHz Dual-Core Processor (£128.33 @ More Computers)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£69.53 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£29.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£56.22 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (£162.98 @ Aria PC)
Case: Corsair SPEC-01 RED ATX Mid Tower Case (£41.39 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£64.99 @ Aria PC)
Monitor: Asus VE247H 23.6" Monitor (£109.50 @ Aria PC)
Total: £662.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-14 23:55 GMT+0000

Not that both of these include monitors, but do not include peripherals such as keyboards, headphones, mice, and also don't include an operating system. If you're interested in fiddling, a Linux flavour will work fine, as all are free, and if you're a student then you may be able to get Windows at a massive discount or free.

 

[Ced]

Woah, thanks guys! Baron, I've bumped my budget up to around £800 so that high-end one is looking mighty tempting. Do you think it would be able to handle most games in the next year or so, and if not would that setup be easy to upgrade?

 

[Baron]

We're in a bit of a weird place right now, parts-wise. Intel's Skylake line released around the same time as the DDR4 RAM standard, and neither are compatible with motherboards not designed with them in mind. However, the CPU ought to be good for 4-5 years unless there's drastic changes in CPU development, and GPUs all use the PCIE standard, which all motherboards support. You ought to be fine TBH.

Games-wise, that build is what we call "entry level enthusiast" in that it can max out everything you throw at it at that resolution. In my experience with my 970 & 4590K (a slightly better CPU which can also overclock), it has no problems running Netflix on one monitor at 1080p with GTAV, Just Cause 3, or Fallout 4 running at a comfortable 60FPS on my 1440p monitor at maximum settings, the larger resolution requiring about 70% more work than a 1080p one for the same result. At 1440p + 1080p having no problem, a single 1080p display is quite a lot easier to drive.

So yeah, you'll be fine for upgrading and playing games at the prettier settings. Two downsides of the current build:

1. That's the cheapest well-rated 1080p monitor at ~24 inches. I don't think it's IPS or 144Hz, so colors and framerate could both be better. It's a very middle of the road piece of kit and games would look better with an IPS display or smoother on a 144Hz one. Both of those upgrades carry a hefty price tag, with intro monitors at the same size being twice as expensive for either feature, and a monitor with both features being about as pricey as your entire build.

2. This build cannot overclock, ever. The H97 chipset the motherboard uses doesn't have overclock features available (that'd be Z97), and the CPU is a 4690, which isn't unlocked and is therefore stuck at its current clockspeed. Overclocking is a way to cheaply improve performance, and can draw out the lifespan of an otherwise underperforming PC out another year or two, depending on your luck in the silicon lottery (No two CPUs have identical performance in overclocking). Overclockable parts cost more than locked ones, and are generally more of a power user tool, but nevertheless they're without a doubt superior to locked ones.

 

[Ced]

Baron you have been super helpful, thanks for going through all this - I'm not massively interested in running graphic-intensive games while watching netflix just yet so I'm pretty confident this rig will be more than I need and a huge upgrade from a 4 year old macbook

 

[bodejodel]

Baron you have been super helpful, thanks for going through all this - I'm not massively interested in running graphic-intensive games while watching netflix just yet so I'm pretty confident this rig will be more than I need and a huge upgrade from a 4 year old macbook

Baron's suggested build looks very future proof as long as you don't want to move to 4k gaming. You will experience a MASSIVE improvement over that macbook.
My overclocked pc is from 2009 and I am only now starting to experience games I cannot play.

I'm on an overclocked first generation i5 750 (2.67 @ 3.2 Ghz) with a GTX 560 and I can still somewhat play The Witcher 3. Every game that requires more than TW3 will be quite unplayable for me. I think TW3 has a very efficient engine, because according to the sytem requirements, it should not have been playable on my pc.
I can play Farcry 4 on high/ultra.
Overclocking is fun, but many games do not even stress my CPU because they are mostly GPU heavy. GPU's rule, that's why they will almost always will be the most expensive component by far in your build.
I have always overclocked any pc I owned. Starting with my Pentium 133 Mhz @ 180Mhz by rearranging some jumpers on the motherboard. (that was a massive 35% boost)

Linus is a terrible example since all his gear is devoted to the top end and isn't super meaningful for the average user.

And he knows it...

Skip to 4:10

 

[Spark]

Baron is pretty much the king of this topic.

My advice is to spend as much as you can now, and it'll save you some issues later. For example, the i5 4690, a great processor, but if you spend that extra on the 4690k, you have the ability to overclock it which will make it last a lot longer.

 

[bodejodel]

I was told overclocking reduces the life of a machine?

Depending on the amount of OC you do, it adds a bit of heat under full load. That's what limits the total lifespan of a CPU a bit.
However, most CPU's will last much longer than you are happy to use them. Within about 5-6 years you will be looking to replace it with something newer anyway.
What Baron and Spark mean is that you might be able to use an overclocked pc for another extra year because it is a bit faster. This means you can save up for a new pc for an extra year. Overclocking is not limited to the CPU, but can be done on your graphics card's GPU and memory too, though tbh I have never overclocked my GPU myself.

The machine I had the longest was an overclocked AMD Athlon XP 1700+ which usually runs at 1.4 Ghz. I had it running on 2.1 Ghz for over 8 years before it started to give in. The system recognized it as a XP 2700+ because of its speeds. At that time the XP 2700+ was a very high end CPU while the XP 1700 was sold for a couple of bucks. Lowering the speed made it run super stable again and would have added an other couple of years to it if I had not bought something new.

Typing this, I still hear the crazy loud whine of my Thermaltake Dragon Orb 3 CPU cooler that cooled that beast. It appears to be etched into my brain.

Yes, found one. I remembered correctly...

 

[Baron]

Overclocking is a finnicky thing, since it requires mucking about in various BIOS settings and incrementally upping the clock and voltage, while not exceeding the hardline limitations of that particular chipset. Also, making a build overclock ready is at least 50-100 GBP on top of the existing price since you need a higher end motherboard and an unlocked CPU (don't use a motherboard with shitty VRMs if you're going past the official limit). The default cooler is also entirely unsuitable as overclocked chips throw off way more heat, so you'll need an aftermarket cooler (something like the Hyper 212 Evo if you have no space constraints, or possibly liquid cooling if you do).

Pushing a CPU into hotter territory will absolutely reduce the lifespan of the chip. A CPU running at a constant 70C (they automatically shut down at 90 or so) won't last nearly as long as one at 30C. Liquid cooling is the best option for raising the thermal ceiling but the priciest.

 

[Tomato150]

Ced, can I just sit and watch Baron?

 

[bodejodel]

So for what I'm looking for would you suggest I leave overclocking until I know a bit more about computers and in the future when I want to upgrade the machine?

It seems so yes.
In the mean time, Google stuff about overlooking to see what it takes, costs and how much you gain by it and decide if you want to do it now, in your next build or never. 30 % CPU speed gains do not automatically mean 30% gaming performance gains.

 

[Baron]

So for what I'm looking for would you suggest I leave overclocking until I know a bit more about computers and in the future when I want to upgrade the machine?

Overclocking is something you either commit to from the get-go or leave alone until you build a new machine. The motherboard and CPU both need to allow overclocking, and they're both pricey components that you can't easily swap. So you're looking at something of an opportunity cost: Either keep the build below 1000 GBP or have the option to extend your build's life by a year or two, if it can even overclock all that well. All 4690Ks can reliably go to 4GHz (hell, they default to turboing at 3.9), but you're really gambling on any given chip being able to push past 4.3 or even reaching 4.5 and remaining stable. On top of that, extra costs are incurred the higher you push the clock, since the chip heats exponentially to its linear clockspeed increases.

I'd say if you're willing to send your budget to where overclocking is a reality, instead buy nicer peripherals. A mechanical keyboard, or a comfortable gaming mouse, or high-end headphones will make a much larger and more immediate difference than overclocking. You should also look at spending on a nicer monitor if your budget is going to allow overclocking, since IPS displays make everything gorgeous forever, and 144Hz ones let you play with a very real competitive advantage in FPS games, as well as making everything smoother in general.

 

[Spark]

Can confirm, 144Hz makes a surprisingly big difference.

 

[Ced]

Running Minecraft with shaders at 142fps. Also, Skyrim automatically set the graphics to ultra when I installed it earlier. I'm on a clooooooouuuuuud!

 

[RexJen]

Running Minecraft with shaders at 142fps. Also, Skyrim automatically set the graphics to ultra when I installed it earlier. I'm on a clooooooouuuuuud!

As I myself am using a macbook. Tell me of this majestic dream

 

[bodejodel]

Running Minecraft with shaders at 142fps. Also, Skyrim automatically set the graphics to ultra when I installed it earlier. I'm on a clooooooouuuuuud!

I was watching a LinusTechtip video and that made me think of your thread. I logged in specifically to ask you if it worked out. Was pleased to see a notification so I did not have to dig up the thread.

Awesome! Happy gaming!

I'm curious what kind of fps you get in HR with some ultra+ shaders.

 

[Spark]

Also, Skyrim automatically set the graphics to ultra when I installed it earlier. I'm on a clooooooouuuuuud!

Now with a couple of mods you can have ultra+ graphics ;D Glad it turned out well.

 

[bodejodel]

And don't forget to try The Witcher 3. Even if you don't like the game itself... It is so unbelievably pretty... It should run like a dream on your new pc.

 

[Spark]

Ahaha it's a whole world away from the old macbook! I can't wait to start modding Skyrim, and Bode I'll possibly get The Witcher with GTAV when they're on sale. At the moment they're so expensive D:

If you ever need some mod suggestions, hit me up.

also

https://www.g2a.com/

ez gams ez lyfe