Returning to Consent

[Rygan]

"Initiating combat does not equal death. Was there attempt of murder?"
You cannot kill or harm unless given appropriate reason. This is sensible, and a good shield for characters who partake in no violent roleplay and who are controlled by players who do not wish to.

Where does the risk of combat come from if you have a shield even if you initiate the fighting? If I plot treason against you but do not try to kill you, am I safe?

Fighting is a violent, volatile activity. Who you are fighting does not care if your intent is to capture - if they do not wish to be captured and are willing to kill, they will try to kill you. If you are initiating the violent, volatile combat, why do you have any right to say 'no'?

This precedent only worsens our system which already favours those who are willing to abuse the concept of consent (which is a large portion of us) and isn't even enforced the same in each case, which leaves it only more confusing.

Where does the staff team stand on the issue of consent, and should any of us hoping for even a small amount of conflict just give up? Why bother if, even if we are attacked first, the side unwilling to accept consequence will always win?

 

[Rygan]

Note that I don't speak of someone going overboard in a drunken brawl - I mean live steel being drawn and swung.

 

[Sir Saltington]

*Pours some rock salt and sits down on top of it.*

 

[Tot]

*Pours some rock salt and sits down on top of it.*

*lies on the pile with him*

 

[Jazzper]

I do think that if said violence is provoked, the one "initiating" has a right to say "no" to death if there was no harm done to the one getting initiated on.

 

[Elz]

I do think that if said violence is provoked, the one "initiating" has a right to say "no" to death if there was no harm done to the one getting initiated on.

Honestly, I'd say that's also unfair.
Thats basically "Well shit, I didnt kill you as I planned. So I refuse to die."

 

[Jazzper]

Honestly, I'd say that's also unfair.
Thats basically "Well shit, I didnt kill you as I planned. So I refuse to die."

But what if there was no intention to kill said person, only talk to the person and at most capture, then getting a weapon shoved in your face?

 

[Sir Saltington]

In my opinion, if you start something you are basically signing yourself up to die. If you don't want to die, don't start anything. It makes things like insulting and assassination nothing, because you can just say 'I don't wanna die.' If you want to insult, you want to hurt, you want to do any of that, you should have to deal with the fact that you are risking your life by doing so.

On another note, if someone attacks you for no reason, and you just made a character or something that isn't suppose to be hurting people or anything I think you should have a right to say 'I don't wanna die.'

 

[Elz]

But what if there was no intention to kill said person, only talk to the person and at most capture, then getting a weapon shoved in your face?

They'd realistically get a right to avoid being captured. It's a risk you take when you go try to capture someone against their will, and I'm sure that'd be the case if it were your character being captured.

Also, agreed with Salt. If I don't wish my character to die, I'd avoid them dying by not placing them in a scenario where they would. Theres nothing wrong with dealing out consent/results/not dying before the fight begins, so long as people are made aware.
I've done that in the past with Marian and Illthilior. Tempy_

 

[Sir Saltington]

But what if there was no intention to kill said person, only talk to the person and at most capture, then getting a weapon shoved in your face?

Capturing someone can be a lot worse then killing someone, and if you planned on capturing them then that means you restrict them from doing RP, and many other things. Capturing someone is nothing to just push aside.

 

[Jazzper]

In my opinion, if you start something you are basically signing yourself up to die. If you don't want to die, don't start anything. It makes things like insulting and assassination nothing, because you can just say 'I don't wanna die.' If you want to insult, you want to hurt, you want to do any of that, you should have to deal with the fact that you are risking your life by doing so.

On another note, if someone attacks you for no reason, and you just made a character or something that isn't suppose to be hurting people or anything I think you should have a right to say 'I don't wanna die.'

Someone that is defending Neutrality and tries to get someone to leave because there's opponents of said person coming in.
Then gets shoved a weapon in his face.
I don't really view that as "deserving death", but that's just me

 

[Luam]

To be fair:
I think that if your CLEAR intent is to kill someone, you too should be up for death.
If your CLEAR intent is to injure someone, then you shouldn't be up for death.
If your CLEAR intent is to capture someone, you shouldn't be up for death, unless you are a slaver.
But if your intent isn't CLEAR? You should be up for death.

 

[Naelwyn]

But what if there was no intention to kill said person, only talk to the person and at most capture, then getting a weapon shoved in your face?

You start shit, you get shit, period.

You attack someone you accept all consequences of what they might do in response, period.

Any other way of running it besides the above is abusable lunacy.

 

[Sir Saltington]

Someone that is defending Neutrality and tries to get someone to leave because there's opponents of said person coming in.
Then gets shoved a weapon in his face.
I don't really view that as "deserving death", but that's just me

The fact is you got involved. If you want to get involved with something, you have to prepare with consequences. It's like that with everything, not just fights and RP. For example, if I wanted to stop someone in real life from insulting my friend, I take the risk of getting myself beat up.

 

[Jazzper]

You start shit, you get shit, period.

You attack someone you accept all consequences of what they might do in response, period.

Any other way of running it besides the above is abusable lunacy.

But what if someone starts to attack your char and then wants your char killed?

 

[Sir Saltington]

To be fair:
I think that if your CLEAR intent is to kill someone, you too should be up for death.
If your CLEAR intent is to injure someone, then you shouldn't be up for death.
If your CLEAR intent is to capture someone, you shouldn't be up for death, unless you are a slaver.
But if your intent isn't CLEAR? You should be up for death.

The way you put it, anyone could easily go around stabbing someone saying 'I only want to injury people' and then never get killed because they say 'oh no, I don't want to die, sorry.' If it was like that, the system would be easily abused.

 

[Luam]

The way you put it, anyone could easily go around stabbing someone saying 'I only want to injury people' and then never get killed because they say 'oh no, I don't want to die, sorry.' If it was like that, the system would be easily abused.

That is very true, though I wasn't including every single scenario, or that would of turned into a wall of text, which I couldn't be bothered with typing out. If there is someone just going around starting stuff left and right, I don't think they should die, I think they should be captured and held for trial.

 

[Jazzper]

I just think that if you defend yourself, you're not auto-consenting to death.
If you try to kill someone else, dunno.

 

[Elz]

Someone that is defending Neutrality and tries to get someone to leave because there's opponents of said person coming in.
Then gets shoved a weapon in his face.
I don't really view that as "deserving death", but that's just me

I was not in the recent RP that likely spurred this thread. The idea of consent is still valid. The Crossroads haven't been neutral since the Gods left, if you're going to try and force someone to leave with violent means then you consent to violence.
Violence can end in death. It usually does.

 

[Naelwyn]

"You Start something, you accept any response coming at you that is server-RP-legal."

It's simple, can be stated in one line, and has no room for quibbles.