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Flying machines?

RecklessSquid

Lord of Altera
I was told to bring this to the forums by Naelwyn and Mich. Apparently this is too controversial for OOC in game chat. :cool:

Ok so, my character is engineer, I plan to build an experimental workshop/facility thing for me. I was wondering as hanging from the ceiling of my workshop I thought it would be interesting as a focal point to have a half built prototype 'Flying Machine.' From asking in-game I gathered that airships are lore-wise ok but currently don't work due to strange wind currents or something like that. I was also told 'hand-crank' flying machines were not ok. i have a few ideas of what to build if this is approved. I want it Da Vinci style-ish I think but maybe slightly more steam-punk looking.
The problem we found in game was propulsion as I din't think I wanted 'glorified parachute' as Naelwyn put it. Propellers would be a no no as my character would struggle to invent that on his own. The main idea I had for this was possibly the way it was done in assassins creed where the player lights these bags of oil and drops them on the floor, this creates heat and an updraft of air which the player then uses to cause lift on the flying machine. I don't know whether this idea is too unrealistic for the server although scientifically accurate in essence. Even with no propulsion, would a more guidable hand-glider be allowed?

Another idea I had would be an aerial screw, which was Da Vinci's idea for a primitive helicopter, the pilot would sit in a chair and pedal, this would rotate the canvas screw shape which forces air downwards creating lift. The screw was angled forwards slightly to allow the machine to move forwards. Although, is this technically still 'hand-crank'?

I'm open to other ideas for this as I think a flying machine would be a cool thing for my workshop.

So... Whadda ya think?
 

Exclaimer

Lord of Altera
The whole sprial-helicopter Da Vinci design is a bit too heavy to create enough lift for itself. It is extremely difficult to create a one-man flight device with only manual labor, and requires materials like hard plastics to pull off, as well as extreme strength and endurance.

So flying devices... good luck making a plausible one. It'll be amazing if you do though.
 

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Think about the assets you have before dwelling into this.
Redstone and pistons = engine + huge quantities of power.

Combine the piston with bellows to create pressurised air as the piston moves down. From there it doesn't take a lot to create low levels of propulsion. Start from there and work your way up.

Hot air balloons?
Hot air balloons could work and are within the lore, but remember the issues that arise from poor weather conditions in Altera.
 

RecklessSquid

Lord of Altera
yeah, I didn't really want to do an air balloon or airship as I wanted it to be experimental. Also, whether it works or not may not be essential as remember it's an unfinished, untested prototype. I'm not sure about the plastics though for the screw, if biplanes were made of wood, glue, nails and canvas, I'm sure a pretend one of these made of that stuff would be plausible.
 

RecklessSquid

Lord of Altera
Wow Polo, that's a good idea actually for a makeshift engine, I live in dwarvern style area (although I'm not dwarvern myself) There would be plenty of coolant bellows and steam stuff going on in the mines.
 

Camernater3

Lord of Altera
Well, I think you would need lots of heat made by your burning oil because as far as I can tell, the AC flying machine would need bigger fires to go that much higher by flying over the fires, and I believe there was some sort of plane (a primitive one, not the wright brother's one, it was made after) that had some sort of fan power or something? it was balsa wood and wax paper with some nails/screws (from memory)
 

RecklessSquid

Lord of Altera
yeah, the assassin's creed one was made for a bit of fun in a game, so I'm certain it would take significantly more flame to give as much up-draft as it did in the game. I like the idea of the fans though. Problem with the fan power is I'd need an engine to power it of some description. What powers the hollowworld airships? is it steam-punk style engines? Because if it is, that could work here too.
 

Jaypate

Lord of Altera
Hmm... What about a concept similar to Geothermal power, Heat+Water=Steam, But put that in a turbine to make lift not power?
 

RecklessSquid

Lord of Altera
That might work, remember I'm not trying to make an air balloon though, more like an assisted glider thing. That would also involve carrying water, which is bloomin' heavy!

@Michcat hey could I get some input from the lore team on this one? I basically just want to know if it would be lore-friendly for me to build a Half-built prototype, not necessarily working one, I want it to look as if it's my current big project so i can hang it from my workshop roof.
 
M

Morgan Freeman

Guest
While the official lore would allow for the research into machines such as these, they bear serious negative impacts on roleplaying, setting, and character interactions.

We feel that allowing such would do more harm to the overall feeling of the server than improve it.
 

IceandFire

The Alchemist
Good
Retired Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
icefire120
icefire120
Good
While the official lore would allow for the research into machines such as these, they bear serious negative impacts on roleplaying, setting, and character interactions.

We feel that allowing such would do more harm to the overall feeling of the server than improve it.
How would they be serious negative impacts? I'm not questioning your judgement, just curious as to why there wouldn't be positive developments within characters, settings, and more.
 

RecklessSquid

Lord of Altera
While the official lore would allow for the research into machines such as these, they bear serious negative impacts on roleplaying, setting, and character interactions.

We feel that allowing such would do more harm to the overall feeling of the server than improve it.
Again as @IceandFire said, I'm not questioning your judgement.
I'm not sure I understand this fully though, I accept your view, but could you explain it to me a little more? Is this to the idea of an aircraft that is not an airship or the idea of the research being done? Just to make sure, I was wondering if it is ok to build a half built model as well, not just a working thing. Just essentially an empty shell of a craft that 'could' fly that is not an airship, maybe a few wings or a canvas screw thing on a harness. (I guess if it's the actual research that is the problem, this point is kind of voided)

ALSO: Wow... Morgan Freeman replied! I kinda feel honoured?!?!
 

SallyPirate

Lord of Altera
How would they be serious negative impacts? I'm not questioning your judgement, just curious as to why there wouldn't be positive developments within characters, settings, and more.
I assume the biggest problem is the fact that we've removed airships in the past and allowing small flying machines and therefore flying travel would throw us all into the airship docks again. Which kinda defeats the point of removing airships altogether.
 

IceandFire

The Alchemist
Good
Retired Staff
Pronouns
He/Him
icefire120
icefire120
Good
I assume the biggest problem is the fact that we've removed airships in the past and allowing small flying machines and therefore flying travel would throw us all into the airship docks again. Which kinda defeats the point of removing airships altogether.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying :)
 

Angryboy

Natus de Aurum; Natus ex bellum
I was told to bring this to the forums by Naelwyn and Mich. Apparently this is too controversial for OOC in game chat. :cool:

Ok so, my character is engineer, I plan to build an experimental workshop/facility thing for me. I was wondering as hanging from the ceiling of my workshop I thought it would be interesting as a focal point to have a half built prototype 'Flying Machine.' From asking in-game I gathered that airships are lore-wise ok but currently don't work due to strange wind currents or something like that. I was also told 'hand-crank' flying machines were not ok. i have a few ideas of what to build if this is approved. I want it Da Vinci style-ish I think but maybe slightly more steam-punk looking.
The problem we found in game was propulsion as I din't think I wanted 'glorified parachute' as Naelwyn put it. Propellers would be a no no as my character would struggle to invent that on his own. The main idea I had for this was possibly the way it was done in assassins creed where the player lights these bags of oil and drops them on the floor, this creates heat and an updraft of air which the player then uses to cause lift on the flying machine. I don't know whether this idea is too unrealistic for the server although scientifically accurate in essence. Even with no propulsion, would a more guidable hand-glider be allowed?

Another idea I had would be an aerial screw, which was Da Vinci's idea for a primitive helicopter, the pilot would sit in a chair and pedal, this would rotate the canvas screw shape which forces air downwards creating lift. The screw was angled forwards slightly to allow the machine to move forwards. Although, is this technically still 'hand-crank'?

I'm open to other ideas for this as I think a flying machine would be a cool thing for my workshop.
It's not a case of being too "controversial" for OOC, but rather that it would spawn up arguments between players who want what they want and staff who'd have to keep explaining it over and over. It's happened in the past on other topics, mostly because some people just refuse to take "no" as an answer.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the loreteam have mentioned several times that Altera has a different atmosphere to that of Earth/old-world, thus making aircraft work in a completely different manner. Airships would be simply too heavy to fly properly, your Da-Vinci Helicopter would not work because it requires too much force to hold itself up for any person to actually use it much, and handgliders can't travel that far without being launched from the world's tallest mountain (and even then, it would only go so far).
 

RecklessSquid

Lord of Altera
Thank you guys for clarifying. However...
I assume the biggest problem is the fact that we've removed airships in the past and allowing small flying machines and therefore flying travel would throw us all into the airship docks again. Which kinda defeats the point of removing airships altogether.
Airships would be simply too heavy to fly properly
I was of the understanding that airships existed but didn't work due to high wind speeds? Is this no longer the case? That's just what most people said in game. :D

Also, whilst we are on this topic, may I ask why airships were removed? (Just a guess, were they large and obstructive? Because I kinda thought that :p)
 
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