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Karate
- Thread starter matyio
- Start date
Thalion_Daugion
Loyal Servant of Altera
Matyio, don't do a art that was stolen from another country.
matyio
The original mute
Shut it you. It was not stolen. The Japanese happily let us train with it. I know, if I met a Japanese person who had also trained to blue belt in wado ryu, I'd probably lose if it came to a fight.
S
Stevey
Guest
What sort of comment is this?
If you really want to get started, everything is stolen from somwhere.
Stop farming wheat because you stole it from the Mesopotamians ! Stop using the alphabet, it's stolen from the Phoenicians !
pyrocide
The Mogul of Cromarcky
I have a 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, a 1st degree black belt in Shi To Ryu, and 1st degree black belt in the Kokuba Matsamura Seito Society. I've been practicing martial arts since seventh grade. I'm still taking right now, though that may change soon due to me getting a new job.
Be like water, my friends.
Be like water, my friends.
Thalion_Daugion
Loyal Servant of Altera
Their is two types of "Karate" (空手道).
Chinese 空手道 (Original)
Or the terrible
Japanese 空手道 which was stolen from china. They stole a 84 year old man from his loving family to force him to teach them chinese 空手道.
我希望你从事中国空手道.
Chinese 空手道 (Original)
Or the terrible
Japanese 空手道 which was stolen from china. They stole a 84 year old man from his loving family to force him to teach them chinese 空手道.
我希望你从事中国空手道.
pyrocide
The Mogul of Cromarcky
Can you cite the source you've found that says karate was stolen from one guy in china that was brought to japan and forced to teach?
That goes directly against a number of other sources, all of which show that martial arts were passed from china to okinawa through trade relations, grew in popularity due to okinawa's weapons restrictions, and eventually spread to japan through teachers like Kenwa Mabuni.
That goes directly against a number of other sources, all of which show that martial arts were passed from china to okinawa through trade relations, grew in popularity due to okinawa's weapons restrictions, and eventually spread to japan through teachers like Kenwa Mabuni.
Thalion_Daugion
Loyal Servant of Altera
My mentor, he is grandmaster of the school and he has been studying martial arts since he was 5 years old. He is a black belt 8th dan in "Karate" and a Black Sash with gold sash in southern Shaolin kung fu.
matyio
The original mute
1 problem with what you just said, if he is a black belt in "karate" what form is he a black belt in? I know its not wado ryu as that has dans instead of gold sash and such like.
pyrocide
The Mogul of Cromarcky
I'd also like to know what style of karate your "Grandmaster 8th dan" instructor comes from.
Let me elaborate further on my rebuttal. When I said "Chinese martial arts" were taught through trade relations to Okinawa, I did not mean "Chinese Karate." I mean gung fu, primarily. Specifically it was the white crane style that was considered the most prominent style taught to the Okinawans, though certainly not the only style.
Okiwana in turn, as every new group does that takes in a new idea (this doesn't stop at martial arts) took gung fu, and mixed in their own techniques, especially incorporating tools to use as weapons, since Okinawa was under strict "no-weapon" laws but could get away with carrying farming tools. They named the style Kara-te. Te meaning hand, and Kara essentially equating to China. The Okinawans called the style Chinese Hand because they developed the style from Chinese techniques.
Eventually, in order to spread the martial art to Japan, the name was changed from "Chinese Hand" to "Empty Hand," though this is only evident in the writing, as they both sound like Karate. That name change, as well as many kata names were changed mostly due to political reasons. Japan and China were at war at the time, so keeping the older Chinese named would have been rejected by Japan. Karate was also changed from the simple "kara-te" to "Karate-do," which basically means "the way of Karate," Meaning the martial art was more than combat techniques, but also a lifestyle and method of personal improvement. The simple "Karate" is the popular term, which is mostly western civilization's fault for simplifying many terms that did not originate here.
Finally, as it seems you may not know, Karate-do is the overarching classification to the martial arts styles that originated in Okinawa. There are many different styles of karate, just as there are with gung fu. I am a practitioner of Shi to Ryu, but there is also shorin ryu, shotokan ryu, wado ryu, and many others.
TL;DR: There is no Chinese Karate, or "Chinese, Chinese Hand." The Okinawans created it and credited China for the basis of the new martial art. I'm not sure why your instructor has informed you incorrectly, but he has. There is an absolute wealth of information on the history of martial arts, and I would like to extend an invitation to do some independent research on the topic.
(edit- When I say "There is no Chinese Karate, let me restate that with a qualifier. There is no legitimate Chinese Karate.)
Let me elaborate further on my rebuttal. When I said "Chinese martial arts" were taught through trade relations to Okinawa, I did not mean "Chinese Karate." I mean gung fu, primarily. Specifically it was the white crane style that was considered the most prominent style taught to the Okinawans, though certainly not the only style.
Okiwana in turn, as every new group does that takes in a new idea (this doesn't stop at martial arts) took gung fu, and mixed in their own techniques, especially incorporating tools to use as weapons, since Okinawa was under strict "no-weapon" laws but could get away with carrying farming tools. They named the style Kara-te. Te meaning hand, and Kara essentially equating to China. The Okinawans called the style Chinese Hand because they developed the style from Chinese techniques.
Eventually, in order to spread the martial art to Japan, the name was changed from "Chinese Hand" to "Empty Hand," though this is only evident in the writing, as they both sound like Karate. That name change, as well as many kata names were changed mostly due to political reasons. Japan and China were at war at the time, so keeping the older Chinese named would have been rejected by Japan. Karate was also changed from the simple "kara-te" to "Karate-do," which basically means "the way of Karate," Meaning the martial art was more than combat techniques, but also a lifestyle and method of personal improvement. The simple "Karate" is the popular term, which is mostly western civilization's fault for simplifying many terms that did not originate here.
Finally, as it seems you may not know, Karate-do is the overarching classification to the martial arts styles that originated in Okinawa. There are many different styles of karate, just as there are with gung fu. I am a practitioner of Shi to Ryu, but there is also shorin ryu, shotokan ryu, wado ryu, and many others.
TL;DR: There is no Chinese Karate, or "Chinese, Chinese Hand." The Okinawans created it and credited China for the basis of the new martial art. I'm not sure why your instructor has informed you incorrectly, but he has. There is an absolute wealth of information on the history of martial arts, and I would like to extend an invitation to do some independent research on the topic.
(edit- When I say "There is no Chinese Karate, let me restate that with a qualifier. There is no legitimate Chinese Karate.)
Thalion_Daugion
Loyal Servant of Altera
Know what? I'm not going to argue with people who will not listen, And pyrocide do you even know what Karate means?
Thalion_Daugion
Loyal Servant of Altera
1 problem with what you just said, if he is a black belt in "karate" what form is he a black belt in? I know its not wado ryu as that has dans instead of gold sash and such like."
He is gold sash & black sash in Southern Shaolin Gung Fu. And 8th Dan in Okinawa Karate.
He is gold sash & black sash in Southern Shaolin Gung Fu. And 8th Dan in Okinawa Karate.
TheCastellan
Lord Zanros Hawklight
I'm a Third dan Black belt :3
pyrocide
The Mogul of Cromarcky
Thanks for ignoring my entire post as I've already explained, in detail, what karate means.
Also once again you are incorrect, as you do not call a style of karate "Okinawa Karate," though it looks like you've picked up the word Okinawa now. Baby steps I guess. If you're meaning the oldest karate style, then it's probably shorin ryu, though that is not nearly the only style, so it's impossible for me to know which style it is unless you can come back and actually give a style.
Finally, as I said before but you willfully ignored it, I have given you a detailed account of what is considered by historians to be the early history of karate. However, I implore you to actually go and research this history on your own. I train under a 10th dan soke, but I did not simply take everything he said for granted. If fact I was explicitly not told, so that I would research it myself.
I have done this research for part of my shodan ho test in both Shi To Ryu and for my senior exit project in high school. If you can show me a credible source that invalidates everything I have researched and supports some wild claim that all karate springs from the forced teachings one kidnapped elder to japan, from china, then I will take back everything I've said and apologize.
You've accused me of not listening, when the reverse is true. I'm all ears, please show me a credible source that matches your claim.
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Castellan-sempai! which style?
matyio
The original mute
I call hax because of the :3 face
TheCastellan
Lord Zanros Hawklight
No hax, just karate 