Medieval & Fantasy Minecraft Roleplaying

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Medieval armor misconceptions

Gregor

Lord of Altera
We tend to have a really romantic image of fighting, where swords cut through armor easily, and people with heavy armor are tin cans who can barely move. Ofcourse, much of this is fantasy but i want to atleast tell how it was in reality.

First off, lets talk about heavy armor.
Knights in full harness were not as slow and inflexible as you might imagine, weighing around 40-60 pounds, lighter than modern soldier's equipment. Knights armor was also better balanced, instead of all of it in a backpack.

People can do cartwheels in full harness, as well as easily jumping off a galloping horse.
People were not stupid, if it didn't work well they wouldnt use it.

Now, lets move onto longsword techniques against opponents with full harness. Plate armor and maille made sword cuts largely useless. Instead, knights would go to the half-sword or to use the sword to help them grapple where the entire sword is a weapon. Or, they may use more-striking which is when the knight would with both hands grip the blade to smite with the pommel or crossguard.

If the knight could get the enemy knight onto the ground, then he may very well use a dagger to finish off his opponent by thrusting at vulernable parts, such as the eye slits of the helmet.

When plate armor became more popular, two handed weapons were used to get through the armor, as well as blunt weapons to break the bones within the armor.
Bows hardly pierced armor, and light crossbows didn't do it either. Heavy crossbows did.
Only the very best armors however, could stop crossbows with a draw weight of a thousand pounds.


Shields became less popular because of the fact that projectiles became too powerful for shields to stop. Also, shields are virtually useless if you are wearing plate armor.

Once plate armour became common, just whacking people with a sword became ineffective. This style is for man-on-man combat or duels. In actual melee combat with multiple enemies, one would use fighting picks, maces or axes against plate-armoured enemies.

Fights between two people with plate armor could last for hours!



TLDR: Knight can move, and your longsword thrust/slash wont do much.

But Greg, isnt plate armor op as hell then?
It had its disadvantages, your field of view was very limited, and overheating was a serious problem.

Also do realize in those times it was extremely expensive to have plate armor, let alone custom made plate armor.

Knights were mostly middclass men and did not have full plate armor. Since you also have to maintain it.

Think of this next time you think "john the lone ranger" can cut through heavy plate, albeit with bow or sword.
 

Angryboy

Natus de Aurum; Natus ex bellum
wait, half swording is basically hitting a guy with the other side of the sword?
I thought it was where you would hold the grip of the sword with one hand and have the other hand holding about half-way up the blade, giving you more control. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not.

EDIT:
wait, half swording is basically hitting a guy with the other side of the sword?
Looking at the image, it seems like the guy on the left is half-swording and the guy on the right is more-striking.

For the record, using the pommel of the sword (the part on the end of the sword, closest to you if you held it like a fencer) was usually the densest part of the sword. It had to act as a counter-weight for the rest of the sword to keep it well-balanced, which meant it had to be extremely heavy in an extremely small space, making it excellent for blunt-attacks (hence why the more-strike was so powerful).
 
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Camernater3

Lord of Altera
wait, half swording is basically hitting a guy with the other side of the sword?
I thought it was where you would hold the grip of the sword with one hand and have the other hand holding about half-way up the blade, giving you more control. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not.
Both, If you want to use the blade, you guide it into armour gaps other wise you just knock em on the head
 

Kentsham

Lord of Altera
When plate armor became more popular, two handed weapons were used to get through the armor, as well as blunt weapons to break the bones within the armor.
Bows hardly pierced armor, and light crossbows didn't do it either. Heavy crossbows did.
Only the very best armors however, could stop crossbows with a draw weight of a thousand pounds.
This is not entirely true. Bows and Crossbows could penetrate plate armor. After the development of fluted plate, basically a pointed chest piece, it made it easier to deflect the arrows or bolts and at that point bows and arrow became less useful against enemies in full plate.


Shields became less popular because of the fact that projectiles became too powerful for shields to stop. Also, shields are virtually useless if you are wearing plate armor.
Shields changed based on mobility. Due to the cost of plate mail not that many people could afford a full suite. Most officers and heavy ground based infantry would not have the leggings. This brought about the creation of the Kite shield. A longer shield you would use to defend your legs and could discard once you got to close range if needed. Not long after the kite shield came the buckler. This small light weight shield would be used by knights even if they wore pull plate. It was created to be light weight so you could carry it on a belt. Knights in plate mail would use this in one on one combat to defend from polearms, spears and blunt weapons.
 

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Largely correct, but it must be pointed out that knights didn't bother fighting other knights with swords to start with. A large part of reason why shields faded out of use was also the fact that polearms became almost a necessity. Unless you had the time to stab someone through the mail or one of places not covered by armour, there is seriously no point in trying to defeat a plate armour wearing man at arms with a sword. Using the pommel was a thing, but it wasn't really all that effective either. I mean, pommels in general aren't what I'd refer to as life-savers, but they do provide a nice counterbalance (and yes, that's part of the reason pommels existed. The closer the balance point to the crossguard, the more manoeuvrable the sword is). Nice thread though :D
 

Scardrac

Felsummer
Thank god this was made. I have recently been cracking down in RP fights about the reality of the plate armor. Did enough research, too. Thank you for this. You have no clue how happy I am that someone else was a bit fed up with the fact that a lot of people thought of plate armor as tin cans.
 

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Tin can is the wrong term to use... More of cooking pot. It would still make you tired faster, and you'd boil inside >_>
 

Scardrac

Felsummer
Tin can is the wrong term to use... More of cooking pot. It would still make you tired faster, and you'd boil inside >_>
"Tin can" used because they are used for target practice a lot. :p But I suppose that works, too. The name to refer to the misconception of easy-puncture is not important.
 

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
Most of the Medieval Armored fighter handbooks I have actually make extensive use of unarmed /throws/ - because slamming someone about in their wee turtle shell remains quite effective.
 

Angryboy

Natus de Aurum; Natus ex bellum
Most of the Medieval Armored fighter handbooks I have actually make extensive use of unarmed /throws/ - because slamming someone about in their wee turtle shell remains quite effective.
Even if they could get back, I'd imagine having a large chunk of metal dented into your face would hurt... or at least be an inconvenience.
 

Teeke

Lord of Altera
Most of the Medieval Armored fighter handbooks I have actually make extensive use of unarmed /throws/ - because slamming someone about in their wee turtle shell remains quite effective.
Yep, grapples and throws were the most common methods of armored fighting - because it actually impacts the squishy fella inside.
 

Exclaimer

Lord of Altera
Should take something into consideration though.

One, many races exist that can wear armor more easily;

Two, this is fantasy, some people have vast feats of strength to use armor more effectively.

This is fantasy, after all :D
 

Angryboy

Natus de Aurum; Natus ex bellum
One, many races exist that can wear armor more easily;
Could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of races that have/do exist in Altera have basically the same body-type. Some are broader, some are taller, but I highly doubt that these variations alone are enough to make one more capable of wearing armour. It would give players of said race an unfair advantage over the others.

Two, this is fantasy, some people have vast feats of strength to use armor more effectively.
Again, having "vast amounts of strength to use armour more effectively" is considered an unfair advantage. A few races have more strength, sure, but giving them a huge advantage in strength to that sort of point would be highly unfair on other players.

Simply put; no, these aren't things to take into consideration. If they were, the player would need to be warned against being overpowered.
 

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
One, many races exist that can wear armor more easily;
Actually, let's look at the main races excluding humans.

Generally speaking, Elves are very similar to humans, although often taller. However, as far as strength itself is concerned, it most likely scales with height, and since you need more steel to make armour for an Elf because he's taller, armour can't be much thicker.

A Dwarf is shorter, and definitely can wear thicker armour, since he's a clumsy little thing anyway. However, being short, a Dwarf has disadvantages that neglect that.

Caparii... Well, enough said.

Earthspawn are stronger, but they're also not intelligent enough to get proper armour, nor do they need it in their eyes... that's assuming any are left xD
 
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