[NationStates] Scientific Advancements

[Valonyx]

No but you see, that's still utter crap; there's absolutely no benefits to being in a research pact the way they are envisioned, simply because not being in one but still being in an alliance will get you other's techs anyways, through sharing, but however being in one will only slow down and cripple the entire faction. Unless Astenbech or the Assembly are forced to comply with also being research agreements, this whole option is unviable.

By that logic, I suggest @Tomato150 goes and disband this ''research agreement'' immediately, or until it actually gives benefits.

 

[BarbarianGaming]

No but you see, that's still utter crap; there's absolutely no benefits to being in a research pact the way they are envisioned, simply because not being in one but still being in an alliance will get you other's techs anyways, through sharing, but however being in one will only slow down and cripple the entire faction. Unless Astenbech or the Assembly are forced to comply with also being research agreements, this whole option is unviable.

By that logic, I suggest @Tomato150 goes and disband this ''research agreement'' immediately, or until it actually gives benefits.

I didn't say the Research Coalitions were a good idea for groups I just stated the rules of being in one. If he is going to disband it he will want to tell all the members of the previous SA group to look at this rule.

Research Coalitions:

If a nation with an individual SAL of less than 100 gains a tech by virtue of being in a research agreement with a group SAL of 100 or more but then leaves the research agreement, the nation that left the research agreement must claim the tech gained from the research agreement as their unique tech once they reach an individual SAL of 100.

 

[Valonyx]

I'd like to push that the Commonwealth may be allowed to disband without punishment like that, seeing as they've been disadvantaged by a discrepancy that the Astenbeck pact has obviously been exploiting. This is very disappointing.

 

[Lord_Sinclair]

Brogan is correct in his stating of the current rules regarding research coalitions.

However, Val is also correct is his stating that research agreements, as currently designed, hold little value.

You see, at the moment, I'm trying to balance two ends of the spectrum, and I'm basically failing to find a balance. From my perspective, either research agreements will give so few benefits that no one will use them or give so many benefits that everyone will use them. At the moment, I've opted for the former option to try and avoid things possibly spinning out of control.

You see, right now, the Commonwealth holds a collective SAL of 150. That means that, if I dropped the "same tech for everyone" caveat, we'd have 8 nations instantly all getting their own unique techs. Naturally, everyone else in the region would then copy this and form research coalitions of their own. Before long, we'd have new techs flying around left and right. Now, that may sound appealing to some, but to me, at least, it sounds like too much of a tech rush.

Please, though, continue the discussion; perhaps you all can think of different methods of implementation, or maybe I've just got it wrong and more people want more techs sooner.

 

[Lord_Sinclair]

I'd like to push that the Commonwealth may be allowed to disband without punishment like that, seeing as they've been disadvantaged by a discrepancy that the Astenbeck pact has obviously been exploiting. This is very disappointing.

In all fairness, the Commonwealth has never officially stated that they are in a research agreement to begin with; I simply assumed as much based on their "think the same" mantra.

Furthermore, seeing as the Commonwealth's agreement would have been established prior to the new rules, I would not penalize them for disbanding it.

If you'll remember, I made a post earlier about Harvendir's situation in hopes of discussing how the Commonwealth's system will play out, but I've yet to receive a response.

 

[Lord_Sinclair]

I'd like to push that the Commonwealth may be allowed to disband without punishment like that, seeing as they've been disadvantaged by a discrepancy that the Astenbeck pact has obviously been exploiting. This is very disappointing.

As for Astenbech exploitation, keep in mind that we've had to wait longer to get our techs. We've gotten more techs, yes, but we haven't gotten them faster.

...except for Tarcheya. Tarcheya is just strange like that.

 

[BarbarianGaming]

As for Astenbech exploitation, keep in mind that we've had to wait longer to get our techs. We've gotten more techs, yes, but we haven't gotten them faster.

...except for Tarcheya. Tarcheya is just strange like that.

Tarcheya can turn labor into science by using hammer and sickle.

 

[Valonyx]

B
You see, right now, the Commonwealth holds a collective SAL of 150. That means that, if I dropped the "same tech for everyone" caveat, we'd have 8 nations instantly all getting their own unique techs. Naturally, everyone else in the region would then copy this and form research coalitions of their own. Before long, we'd have new techs flying around left and right. Now, that may sound appealing to some, but to me, at least, it sounds like too much of a tech rush.

Then perhaps we should consider my earlier suggestion of having Astenbech and the Assembly, (and any other large political factions) be forced to comply with also being research agreements?

 

[RexJen]

@RexJen your group has already researched it's first tech (Advanced ballistics) and you and your group will have to wait until you reach 200 SA to get your next special tech.

I was not contacted about this research, Mosouria had no part in it

 

[Cap]

No. Sinclair said he assumed that the Commonwealth used the research agreement method. He did not force them into anything.

It's stupid that anyone should be forced into one based off of their alliance.

It appears you're just jealous of the fact that the Pact used their superior science levels to get more tech faster. Which is okay. But if you're being an arse about it, that's not okay.

 

[Tomato150]

No. Sinclair said he assumed that the Commonwealth used the research agreement method. He did not force them into anything.

It's stupid that anyone should be forced into one based off of their alliance.

It appears you're just jealous of the fact that the Pact used their superior science levels to get more tech faster. Which is okay. But if you're being an arse about it, that's not okay.

First, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Secondly, Valonyx makes a good argument that they're just not worth it, since if all the nations in the commonwealth were to have 100 SA, we'd collectively gain 10 unique techs which would be able to be produced and shipped to other countries, but in a research agreement . . . we'd get 1.8 unique techs.

Finally, I would like to disregard the Chimeran Commonwealth research agreement on the grounds of Valonyx's arguement.

 

[Cap]

First, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Secondly, Valonyx makes a good argument that they're just not worth it, since if all the nations in the commonwealth were to have 100 SA, we'd collectively gain 10 unique techs which would be able to be produced and shipped to other countries, but in a research agreement . . . we'd get 1.8 unique techs.

Finally, I would like to disregard the Chimeran Commonwealth research agreement on the grounds of Valonyx's arguement.

I wasn't arguing about what he said. The research agreement isn't worth it for the Commonwealth.

I was arguing about him trying to force the Pact, which has multiple nations with one tech and some nearing a second tech, into a research agreement to take away our SA.

 

[Tomato150]

I wasn't arguing about what he said. The research agreement isn't worth it for the Commonwealth.

I was arguing about him trying to force the Pact, which has multiple nations with one tech and some nearing a second tech, into a research agreement to take away our SA.

Then perhaps we should consider my earlier suggestion of having Astenbech and the Assembly, (and any other large political factions) be forced to comply with also being research agreements?

He was merely suggesting that all bodies of nations do it, not just Astenbech. the Ocean Assembly would also be affected.

 

[RexJen]

Science - 128

Advanced Transgenetics

It would be used for such things as

3d printing replacement human organs using their own DNA to minimize rejection
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/new-3d-bioprinter-to-reproduce-human-organs/
Creating superfoods
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice
Glowing pets/ specially bred pets
http://listverse.com/2013/07/26/top-10-gm-animals-you-can-buy-or-eat/
Fruit bats bred to be docile fruit-eating miniature dragons (just trust me on this one~)
(This is an extension of the specially bred pets)
Specially coloured/designed plants varying from the size of a bonzai tree to the size of redwoods
(combination between the pets and the superfoods)
Boats built with bouyant plant-matter that creates bubbles of hydrogen inside itself to give itself the ability to float on water, if made on a large enough scale could support an entire building
(there are already floating plants such as certain varieties of kelp, it wouldn't be that strange to create a plant that grew into a floating platform)
Cures to several delibridating diseases through the understanding gained from creating these organisms

Note that there are almost no military advantages for this research, as I believe that people are already good enough at killing eachother

updated!

 

[Valonyx]

It appears you're just jealous of the fact that the Pact used their superior science levels to get more tech faster. Which is okay. But if you're being an arse about it, that's not okay.

huh, I hope this is not aimed towards me, is it?

Because if it is, I believe you're either seriously confused, or seriously angry that someone pointed the glitch out.

There's no gain in winning or losing unfairly, other then being despised afterwards. You can only gain respect from yourself and your rival by gaining victory on fair grounds, in a game, that is.

Furthermore, as Tomato pointed, I'm just suggesting that, following sinclair's argument of too much unique techs flying around, we maybe should consider having all alliances pool, not only the Commonwealth, on the grounds of fairness. Furthermore, how could I possibly be jealous? Might i remind you that i suggested that the Assembly also go on with such an idea, and might I also remind you that all of the members of the Assembly already have their unique tech, or are nearly able to. There's really no reason or argument to back up trying to attack my reputation as a fair player.

 

[BarbarianGaming]

I'm not trying to add fire to the argument but this statement has a fallacy.

I was not contacted about this research, Mosouria had no part in it

Think Together
- - -​

All the members of The Commonwealth share all scientific advancements between them, as well as work together to discover new technological mights. Currently, the five nations of The Commonwealth are in a collaborative research pact with the focus being on quantum computing. Leading their efforts in research currently is Morosia, providing the largest gain in scientific advancement across the nations.

​

Tomato can disband the research agreement, I have no problem with it, but from what I see on the Chimeran Commonwealth thread you were included in a research group.
(Im assuming Morosia is a typo of Mosouria)

 

[Lord_Sinclair]

Then perhaps we should consider my earlier suggestion of having Astenbech and the Assembly, (and any other large political factions) be forced to comply with also being research agreements?

OOC, this makes sense, but IC, why would a political or military alliance have to also be a scientific agreement?

On a slightly different note, I've been considering the system a bit more. The reason research agreements are even a thing is because people wanted some way to pool their science to get an edge. However, if we consider how things have actually played out, most of us are pooling science by sharing their techs within their alliances, to an extent, at least.

If this continues to be the case, then the overall need for research agreements diminishes; nations can just trade techs, sell them to one another, or work out something else without ever using the research agreement system.

 

[Lord_Sinclair]

Also, the Commonwealth's research coalition has been dissolved, though I'm not sure that's the correct way to put it, seeing as it was never officially formed.

In other words, there's no RP related to this that even needs to be voided, at least not to my knowledge.

 

[Tomato150]

I'm not trying to add fire to the argument but this statement has a fallacy.


Tomato can disband the research agreement, I have no problem with it, but from what I see on the Chimeran Commonwealth thread you were included in a research group.
(Im assuming Morosia is a typo of Mosouria)

True, when I was writing that, I was planning for a research coalition, but in the midst of school and a particular set of months IRL, highly likely I've missed a lot of things, sorry.

 

[Lord_Sinclair]

Research coalitions are simply really difficult to balance, mechanics-wise.