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On Engems, Dubious Morality, and the Nature of Rumors

Gaby

Lord of Altera
alright.

so I've heard ppl started hating on engem tribe because they went and "raided lydel twice"

this rumor is INACCURATE.

THATS WHAT A RUMOR IS SUPPOSED TO BE

MYTH. LIES. EXAGGERATION!

what I know is fact is that Morna Rhett, a known murderer who was working as barkeep in Lydel, was captured.
the Engems captured her for her obvious crimes.

thats literally the only thing I can verify as truth.


if your character hears this rumor ic and is all "I hate the engems!" because of it, cool.

BUT HARASSING ENGEMS BECAUSE OF AN IC ACTION WHICH THEY DID NOT EVEN DO

IS NOT OK


the Engems are an organization of many people. people with flaws, and a great deal of anger about many injustices.

(their bias against moor elves, in case you're wondering, is because a moor elf city captured the original engems, enslaved them, and ate their bodies.)

they're justified in their anger. just as anyone who hates the engems ic would be justified.
irl, they're pretty chill people! (I mean hey, they decided to make a society thats militant about racial equality, thats some cool stuff) (course if you have some negative opinion of them ooc, like you think they powergame of something, w/ever)
you shouldn't be sending them angry pms and going "wow, screw those engem jerks! ra ra down with engem."

because not cool dude.
not cool
they're roleplaying. we're all roleplaying.
calm down.

--
slightly off topic, but also important:

and say the Engems actually did do what the rumor said. they went and burned down an innocent town to capture prisoners. ok. lots of governments do that. the engems have their reasons for doing so,

but one could say such a hypothetical decision would be morally bankrupt, pretty easily.

STILL NO REASON TO ARGUE OR HATE THEM OOC

listen here, evil characters aren't pretty. they don't all dashingly twirl their mustaches with pizzazz or gayly do a song and dance about how they're going to ruin the protagonist's life. they don't cackle maniacally after deviously scheming their evil plan. they don't seek the ruin of everyone around them. they don't go and kick a dog because they didn't fill their evil quota for the day.

at least, they don't in Altera.

they think themselves in the right, no matter what they do. they go to great lengths to justify their motivations, so they don't feel remorse when they kill innocents. they will have friends who will defend them, they have power to do as they feel, and they will, for all intents and purposes, look utterly justified if you put their actions in a certain perspective.

take, for example, Frankenstein's monster (from the book). he kills a lot of people, ruins his own creator's life, and consistently acts with malice and hatred. however, he has reasons for doing so. literally everyone is biased against him because of his appearance, even his own creator. everything he does, he does for perceived revenge against his creator. though he is definitely a villain, his morality isn't broken. in fact, it's incredibly strong. he sees himself slighted in an unjust world, and at the end of his crimes, he feels so guilty and remorseful, that he can no longer see any point in living anymore.

it's a fact of life, that people have a hard time having characters make moral decisions that they don't agree with. thankfully, we've had enough conflicting viewpoints and randomly violent characters and Scardrac to give us some degree of conflict on this server,
but the heroes still outnumber the villains at least 2 to 1.

if we want more villains in Altera, we have to stop stigmatizing characters doing unsavory things! I mean yeah, when people are jerks ooc, it sucks, but please try and make the distinction between not only you and your character, but also other people and theirs!

(this does not only apply to characters explicitly designated as villains. this also applies to any character that does something a little... off. be they good, evil, or neutral)
 

Tybalt

Lord of Altera
alright.

so I've heard ppl started hating on engem tribe because they went and "raided lydel twice"

this rumor is INACCURATE.

THATS WHAT A RUMOR IS SUPPOSED TO BE

MYTH. LIES. EXAGGERATION!

what I know is fact is that Morna Rhett, a known murderer who was working as barkeep in Lydel, was captured.
the Engems captured her for her obvious crimes.

thats literally the only thing I can verify as truth.


if your character hears this rumor ic and is all "I hate the engems!" because of it, cool.

BUT HARASSING ENGEMS BECAUSE OF AN IC ACTION WHICH THEY DID NOT EVEN DO

IS NOT OK


the Engems are an organization of many people. people with flaws, and a great deal of anger about many injustices.

(their bias against moor elves, in case you're wondering, is because a moor elf city captured the original engems, enslaved them, and ate their bodies.)

they're justified in their anger. just as anyone who hates the engems ic would be justified.
irl, they're pretty chill people! (I mean hey, they decided to make a society thats militant about racial equality, thats some cool stuff) (course if you have some negative opinion of them ooc, like you think they powergame of something, w/ever)
you shouldn't be sending them angry pms and going "wow, screw those engem jerks! ra ra down with engem."

because not cool dude.
not cool
they're roleplaying. we're all roleplaying.
calm down.

--
slightly off topic, but also important:

and say the Engems actually did do what the rumor said. they went and burned down an innocent town to capture prisoners. ok. lots of governments do that. the engems have their reasons for doing so,

but one could say such a hypothetical decision would be morally bankrupt, pretty easily.

STILL NO REASON TO ARGUE OR HATE THEM OOC

listen here, evil characters aren't pretty. they don't all dashingly twirl their mustaches with pizzazz or gayly do a song and dance about how they're going to ruin the protagonist's life. they don't cackle maniacally after deviously scheming their evil plan. they don't seek the ruin of everyone around them. they don't go and kick a dog because they didn't fill their evil quota for the day.

at least, they don't in Altera.

they think themselves in the right, no matter what they do. they go to great lengths to justify their motivations, so they don't feel remorse when they kill innocents. they will have friends who will defend them, they have power to do as they feel, and they will, for all intents and purposes, look utterly justified if you put their actions in a certain perspective.

take, for example, Frankenstein's monster (from the book). he kills a lot of people, ruins his own creator's life, and consistently acts with malice and hatred. however, he has reasons for doing so. literally everyone is biased against him because of his appearance, even his own creator. everything he does, he does for perceived revenge against his creator. though he is definitely a villain, his morality isn't broken. in fact, it's incredibly strong. he sees himself slighted in an unjust world, and at the end of his crimes, he feels so guilty and remorseful, that he can no longer see any point in living anymore.

it's a fact of life, that people have a hard time having characters make moral decisions that they don't agree with. thankfully, we've had enough conflicting viewpoints and randomly violent characters and Scardrac to give us some degree of conflict on this server,
but the heroes still outnumber the villains at least 2 to 1.

if we want more villains in Altera, we have to stop stigmatizing characters doing unsavory things! I mean yeah, when people are jerks ooc, it sucks, but please try and make the distinction between not only you and your character, but also other people and theirs!

(this does not only apply to characters explicitly designated as villains. this also applies to any character that does something a little... off. be they good, evil, or neutral)
This is beautiful :)
 

MaelstromPuddle

Lord of Altera
Legend
Auralein
Auralein
Legend
May I just put into perspective on what members on The Engems have threaterned Moor Elves with in the past

  • Regional Extinction
  • Regional Extinction
  • oh... a more regional extinction
  • Harassing Moor Elves
  • anyone who spoke out against them is pretty much mobbed by 3 of them and then dragged off to be "Re-educated" which turns out to be torture so brutal that even Moor Elves would think twice about it.
Cheers.
 

Tybalt

Lord of Altera
May I just put into perspective on what members on The Engems have threaterned Moor Elves with in the past

  • Regional Extinction
  • Regional Extinction
  • oh... a more regional extinction
  • Harassing Moor Elves
  • anyone who spoke out against them is pretty much mobbed by 3 of them and then dragged off to be "Re-educated" which turns out to be torture so brutal that even Moor Elves would think twice about it.
Cheers.
A lot of people called for regional extinction of moors ;)
 

MaelstromPuddle

Lord of Altera
Legend
Auralein
Auralein
Legend
To be brutally honest... doing a Vladimir Lenin and trying to overthrow civilization just puts into perspective how martial and combat base the Engem Tribe has became. 3 of you dragged a clinically insane man who couldn't defend himself because he engaged in an activity (blood drinking) that is a core aspect of the Moor Elven culture, you ought to take into consideration that if you continue to enforce such draconian law on the server, you'll be the target of hate crimes.
 

Valonyx

Lord of Altera
Guys, I can tell you, very honestly, that I like the path the Engems are going, and that they unfortunately must expect some kind of dummies bringing a bit of OOC hate along, because that's what I had for the last two years, playing organisation typically disliked by some due to various reasons (fear, disdain, jealousy, etc). In that sense, it is rather normal that you get some kind of comeback.

'like mah mama always used to say, ya can't have the butter and the money of the butter... ;)
 

Tybalt

Lord of Altera
To be brutally honest... doing a Vladimir Lenin and trying to overthrow civilization just puts into perspective how martial and combat base the Engem Tribe has became. 3 of you dragged a clinically insane man who couldn't defend himself because he engaged in an activity (blood drinking) that is a core aspect of the Moor Elven culture, you ought to take into consideration that if you continue to enforce such draconian law on the server, you'll be the target of hate crimes.
I'm sure blood drinking is condoned by most society's and that may be the reason for their disliking of Moor elves.

I mean, it isn't because of their race that they hate them for. It's because of their cannibalist ways. And it just happens to be that mostof that race practices that, therefore the persecution of that race.

Take ashna for example, @solusrequiem

We don't hate her because she doesn't practice in blood drinking or corpse eating ;)
 

Somnastra

Puppycat Herder
Staff member
Admin
Events Staff
Lore Staff
Good
Staff
Retired Owner
Somnastra
Somnastra
Good
That's still IC actions, though. It shouldn't bleed into OOC stuff.
 

Solus

object oriented
Staff member
Admin
Retired Owner
Take ashna for example, @solusrequiem

We don't hate her because she doesn't practice in blood drinking or corpse eating
...Oh? Does she not?

OnTopic: I understand it is hard for people to separate RP and OOC knowledge/feelings. When someone acts a certain way in RP and your character has to react to it RP-wise, that is legitimate to the character and what-not, then one has to understand that OOC-wise. . *Referring to Elfa's spreading of Engem news.* It seems to be true to her character from what she knows.

Now this Engem backlash is to be somewhat-expected.. /RP-wise/, depending on who reads the notices, of course. And this also refers to the whole "cleansing of the moor race"... And for anything else, really. Let's just say backlash is to be expected if /anyone/ does /anything/ at all!

But if anyone is giving another OOC grief, then please think a bit on that fact they are doing what their characters would do in their given situation as stated in the first post~

Let's all breath and leave the hate to our characters.
 

Goldengem25

The Kingdom Crusher
If I'm honest, the Engem are purposely designed to be interpreted as either good or bad. On one hand they're anti-civilization Barbarians that constantly argue against Civilization, and have a jingoistic nationalism that doesn't mix well with their openly militarized society where you require some sort of martial arts or weapon training (and the obvious anti-cannibal sentiment, coupled with occasional torture). However, on the other end, they've cured cataract blindness (massively affected Forest Elves in their Twilight stage, I think), have actively tried to contribute to fight the Corruption and focus on their cultural growth in their homeland, trying to create a place where their large family can be happy; with a large amount of racial equality and utter gender equality. They also want to spread that the the outside world. They also tend to usually debate Civilization, but the thing is nobody has actually raised any points against them; it either ends in agreement, walking off or them fighting. And even if they win fights and killed someone, it's pretty much demanded they pray for the person (unless cannibal, for religious beliefs).

I can understand persecution. The first thing that ever even happened to us was being persecuted by Lonmar for speaking out against Draco's reign. But we try not to start fights, and never attack first, our violent actions were responses to crimes (usually murder) against the Engem or cannibalism. But this reasoning alone has got to people OOC, and it seems people are openly trying to find reasons to hate us OOCly. Not naming names, but someone wanted to kill us all, and had killed on of us; and after their reasoning being dismissed they simply shrugged OOC and went to fabricate another reason. That's one example, but other instances happen, and it does affect us. It's got to the point where we can't RP at spawn often. Frankly I'd enjoy a cold war; that'd been my stated goal with the Engem from the start (plus making Hound-ru and the Warbands active), but it's not exactly like that; seeing as some of us get mobbed when we're by ourselves outside of Hound-ru. Though if there is any OOC problem with the Engem, someone just tell me. I actively want criticism to try and improve those filthy barbarians, but I haven't got much said directly to me. Hope that clears some things up :p
 

Tybalt

Lord of Altera
...Oh? Does she not?

OnTopic: I understand it is hard for people to separate RP and OOC knowledge/feelings. When someone acts a certain way in RP and your character has to react to it RP-wise, that is legitimate to the character and what-not, then one has to understand that OOC-wise. . *Referring to Elfa's spreading of Engem news.* It seems to be true to her character from what she knows.

Now this Engem backlash is to be somewhat-expected.. /RP-wise/, depending on who reads the notices, of course. And this also refers to the whole "cleansing of the moor race"... And for anything else, really. Let's just say backlash is to be expected if /anyone/ does /anything/ at all!

But if anyone is giving another OOC grief, then please think a bit on that fact they are doing what their characters would do in their given situation as stated in the first post~

Let's all breath and leave the hate to our characters.
Well to begin with we didn't even ooc know her reason for doing so, it just seemed COMPLETLY random
 

Centurion

Dark Council Elite
evil characters aren't pretty. they don't all dashingly twirl their mustaches with pizzazz or gayly do a song and dance about how they're going to ruin the protagonist's life. they don't cackle maniacally after deviously scheming their evil plan. they don't seek the ruin of everyone around them. they don't go and kick a dog because they didn't fill their evil quota for the day.
i beg to differ
 
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