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How armour really worked.

MRPolo13

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Basically what's written on the tin. How armour, this time just plate armour, really worked.
I already killed a myth about movement in plate armour, but there is far more to that story.

Plate armour weighed up to around 20 kilograms. Using the classical, everlasting phrase, it's around the same weight as modern soldier's full equipment, but is balanced better. This phrase usually means plate armour from fifteenth century, so the weight did vary quite a lot, and was lighter in twelfth and thirteenth century. This phrase also applies to battle armour. Jousting armour was heavier, but allowed very little mobility.
Which brings us to the next point. Mobility. Plate armour was actually very mobile. It hardly restrained one's movement, and Zawisza Czarny, a very famous Polish knight of Medieval times, was said to be able to jump over a horse in full plate armour. If you still don't believe me, well...
This is of course nothing. There was footage somewhere of a guy doing handstands...

Mobility, however, does mean thickness of plate armour wasn't as thick as people would want to believe. The Cuirass itself was up to around 2 millimetres thick, which isn't that much at all. It certainly wasn't a tank thickness armour :p
However that was sufficient to stop blows from a sword. Plate armour was made up of couple of layers. The main chestplate, then the chainmail below it, then the hardened wool tunic. This meant plate armour heated up like Hell, and it certainly wasn't fun to wear something like this out in 30 degrees Celsius.

Plate armour could stop swords, arrows fired from lighter bows and most peasant weapons for some time, until it eventually gave away. However something like a war hammer's sharp end went right through plate armour and easily killed anyone beneath it. The blunt end of a pole axe is said to have had the ability to burst your insides, and even if it didn't quite penetrate you'd have broken ribs and would most likely be dead anyway.

Small clarification for all you people that plate armour wasn't necessarily as great, but it also wasn't as bad as people seem to believe...
 
Shrimpsy

Shrimpsy

Lord of Altera
The mobility thing seems to be true, also rather effective against plate armor were the morningstar and the flail. Their origin is also rather interesting.

In medieval times, the farmers didn't have all these new fancy things that separated grains from stalks. Thus, the farmers had to thrash the wheat, and it wasn't a very quick process when one used fist/clubs etc. Which is why the flail was invented. Basically, it just a heavy spiky ball attached to a chain with handle. This of course seperated the grains much quicker.

Back on topic, the flail's potential for combat was discovered. When one swung it against plate armor, it would dent in the plate, constricting breathing space, blocking arteries, etc. the morningstar was similar, only it was more a cross between flail and mace.

So yeah, plate armor was weaker against a few specialised weapons, however didn't have that many other disadvantages.
 
MRPolo13

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Indeed a flail was probably the most dangerous weapon against plate armour from peasant's point of view, that is if it ever came to close combat.
 
blargtheawesome

blargtheawesome

... is very scientifical.
Events Staff
Lore Staff
Staff
So, the average longbow, recurve, crossbow, would go right through platemail into the victim beneath?

And how thick could plate get before it just started getting ridiculous and you couldn't move?
 
Shrimpsy

Shrimpsy

Lord of Altera
Actually, mongol bows, if made properly, have the potential to go right through the victim in some cases. The mongols had a very good way of making bows: First they'd have an optimal form, then wax was poured on and apply goat horn, string it and let it dry a year. Once done, the tension when pulling it full is the equivelant of holding two full-grown men on two fingers. The archers would train to pull quickly back and shoot. Their bow arm shoulder muscles were generally more prominent due to training it so much.
 
MRPolo13

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Large crossbows also went right through plate armour. Longbows penetrated nicely, though only Welsh longbows could possibly achieve anything close to Mongol bows.
 
blargtheawesome

blargtheawesome

... is very scientifical.
Events Staff
Lore Staff
Staff
... So, for the sake of it, let's say that Elven bows are similar in style to Mongol bows. Or are, somehow, near as powerful but don't take quite as much strength to use?
 
Michaël Dirix

Michaël Dirix

Legend of Altera
Shrimpsy said:
Actually, mongol bows, if made properly, have the potential to go right through the victim in some cases. The mongols had a very good way of making bows: First they'd have an optimal form, then wax was poured on and apply goat horn, string it and let it dry a year. Once done, the tension when pulling it full is the equivelant of holding two full-grown men on two fingers. The archers would train to pull quickly back and shoot. Their bow arm shoulder muscles were generally more prominent due to training it so much.
Click to expand...
I bet you read Conn Iggulden's books too :D
also, I'm working on making my own chainmail
 
blargtheawesome

blargtheawesome

... is very scientifical.
Events Staff
Lore Staff
Staff
Also~ Compared to normal platemail how good is the Demonic armor that they all wear...? Curious because Tyrin was shooting, essentially, a siege weapon crossbow at them one day and it dented the armor or stuck in it.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Lord of Altera
You like making these posts about keeping to the medieval aspects of fighting in role-play, don't you Polo?

I most definitely approve.
 
Legion

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
Sorry but, there was simply far too much variance in composition, thickness, craftsmanship and style in plate armor for you to be able to make blanket declarations like this.
For example, plate armor made of crude iron acted totally different from that made of bronze. Also, banding made things significantly more durable by simply adding angles, and added more material and structural support. There were also different styles. For example, in the video you provided, the man had the archetypical spanish conquistador breast plate on, and no back plates at all. However in various areas of medieval Europe they had the flatter more contoured breast plate that descended from roman times which had the back plate as well. Then in medieval asia you had the scaled armor which is an entirely different can of worms.

Similarly, there was far too much variance in weapons to be able to definitively say what was and wasnt effective in terms of general categories like bows, crossbows, swords, polearms, hammers.
 
MRPolo13

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
I believe I did mention that I was talking about average 15th century plate armour... And yes, there were a lot of variations, but it's called generalising, no armour was ever the same, even if it was made at same time by the same person.
 
MRPolo13

MRPolo13

The Arbiter of the Gods
Another point to note is that, the way I can see it, not really any plate armour was effective against what I said above.
 
Legion

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
Scaled Angular Japanese iron armor (mid 1500s) could stop a war hammer by deflection. The angles and scales would deflect 90% of the force in various direction.
 
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