Faction Territory Borders

[Valonyx]

And do what? if its a peaceful town you are stuck.
I mean really this is just vanity. None of you have any real power, either ooc OR rp, over lands you have not actually purchased. You can say you have rp power, sure, and maybe if you are scary enough youll get some people to balk, but it would just be bluffing in the end.

This is all fine and dandy Legion, and I understand what you mean, but I will ask you a simple question. What is the point you are trying to make, and why/how does it affects you personally or even RP wise that we do decide to claim land?

In my opinion, us making such moves is a way to make more RP, to transform a currently quite boring political setting into something more dynamic. I understand that you're trying to say that its all smoke and mirrors, but what's the problem with that, if it can help in any way? Even if we didn't build anything in, let's say, a plain, saying the plain belongs to us creates possibilities that we otherwise would never have if the plain was to remain neutral and rural...

 

[Gaby]

And do what? if its a peaceful town you are stuck.

make a declaration:
"House Senatoor declares war on Falandraal for refusing to follow the law of Senatoor"

and you know, tell the guy it belongs to your house IC and if they don't submit they might have to defend their claim against your army.
if its a peaceful settlement and they get attacked(with ooc consent ofc), people are going to rail against that house for attacking innocents

bam, war.

 

[Tomato150]

Also ...

... Hong Kong *opens up a whole new level of thinking*

 

[Somnastra]

.... just for the record, the temple may not be claimed.

 

[GhostKairo]

i was bored

EDIT: i forgot to put in Al'Bathor

 

[pyrocide]

And do what? if its a peaceful town you are stuck.
I mean really this is just vanity. None of you have any real power, either ooc OR rp, over lands you have not actually purchased. You can say you have rp power, sure, and maybe if you are scary enough youll get some people to balk, but it would just be bluffing in the end.

Is this then a failing on the player's part for wanting to make such claims, or a failing on the system for not being able to accommodate such?

 

[Legion]

Theres a system already in place and established for you to have influence over land.
Its called purchasing it. All of you are perfectly capable of purchasing any amount of land youd like. Imagine if Boulderpaul decided to use his money to purchase all the land he could to maximize his influence. Hed have crap tons. But you folk dont want to put in the time to do it. You want it easy, free, even. I mean literally you are attempting to just gain influence over land for free. Its really just incomprehensible. Ignore the fact that none of you have a population to utilize or support that much space, ignore the fact that none of you have significant law enforcement agencies, ignore the fact that as yet none of you have been able to agree on a way to have a war at the end of which someone didnt complain, you still just want land that theres no reason you ought to have, because you dont want to use the system that gives you the option to do it.

 

[Ddaug]

I really don't see any problem with what we are doing here. It's not like during real medieval times people couldn't build inside a empires claim. They could back then and they very well should be able to now. That settlement could be apart of the empire. Or it could claim to be rebelling the empire... I see regions as settlements. Not empire claims. That is why I have two regions.. Same 'empire'. Different regions. And you really can't expect people to be able to claim enough land to be considered anything more than an empire. Besides boulderpaul of course. But that is one outlier.

 

[Legion]

Theres nothing against the rules about what you are doing, true. Not that I could make such judgements anyway, Im not actually staff at the moment. But this isnt a good thing to be doing. Nothing good will come of this. Its more of the same "I just want to win" approach to rp that ruins a lot of things. And, if this were allowed to go, I am certain that down the line thered be someone bickering because someone settled in a land they "owned in rp" and then set their town to peaceful and didnt want to participate in anything like a war.

 

[Valonyx]

Theres a system already in place and established for you to have influence over land.
Its called purchasing it. All of you are perfectly capable of purchasing any amount of land youd like. Imagine if Boulderpaul decided to use his money to purchase all the land he could to maximize his influence. Hed have crap tons. But you folk dont want to put in the time to do it. You want it easy, free, even. I mean literally you are attempting to just gain influence over land for free. Its really just incomprehensible. Ignore the fact that none of you have a population to utilize or support that much space, ignore the fact that none of you have significant law enforcement agencies, ignore the fact that as yet none of you have been able to agree on a way to have a war at the end of which someone didnt complain, you still just want land that theres no reason you ought to have, because you dont want to use the system that gives you the option to do it.

Excuse me? Did you just trying to imply that all I have done and tried to imply is void and seemingly has no value whatsoever? You may have been an old member and a staff member, and I respect you for that, but have some consideration would ya, before putting all the eggs in the same bin?

Secondly, buying plots is in no way a viable method for us to realistically try to implement world frontiers and realistic countries. Why? There are many reasons, some that are quite obvious, and that even I am surprised you didnt take into account, such as the fact that first of all, besides Boulderpaul and Bodejodel, there are no current fortunes (obviously removing real estate (region value) from the equation) that are higher then a million that i know of, or if there are, please enlighten me with their names. Furthermore, even if most of Altera's House lords/Kings/rulers were rich as Boulder, no, we would not have ''crap tons'' of land, unless we begin claiming in weird and OOCly useless patterns.

What i find somewhat stupid in your reasoning, is that you're trying to say that unless you spent more then half a year hidden in a dark hole mining your ass off, there is no other way for you to have power. I understand that money must have some importance in the whole system, but it is really overvalued. In a real medieval setting, manpower, history and resources are only some of the other important components that can ensure someone's might. A broke emperor is still more powerful in many ways then a rich knight, that's what im trying to say.

Lemme give you an example. we're in a fantasy-medieval setting, right? Well, let's say I point a tree and say it's mine

But you folk dont want to put in the time to do it. You want it easy, free, even.

Of course we want to put the freakin time into it, but you must understand that no everyone is a mindless miner! I am entirely agreeing with you on the matter that you can't expect to join the server and claim a kingdom two days after, but i don't neither want to have to harvest 10 million radiants only to be able to run around saying ''I own half a continent'' to my non-existent friends because i spent all my time on hollowworld mining and nobody knows me! I have a live example for you on that matter, and he's called Boulderpaul. No offence whatsoever to said person, but before he got out of his hole with several million worth of riches, practically nobody knew him, I didn't know him, my friends didn't know him, even my rivals didn't know him.

I mean literally you are attempting to just gain influence over land for free.

Well, what's the most simple answer I could give you... YES?

Of course we're trying to gain influence, and as you might have noticed, there isn't any currency existent in any plane of existence for what we call ''influence''. Its gained through respect, prestige, might and blood. If you have the powerbase to claim you own an island, others will genuinely recognize it as yours if you have earlier shown your capacities in the matter. It's been like that in Real Life, it can be aswell in Hollowworld.

 

[Valonyx]

I am certain that down the line thered be someone bickering because someone settled in a land they "owned in rp" and then set their town to peaceful and didnt want to participate in anything like a war.

I've tried addressing this matter in an other thread in a long text where i tried to offer a viable solution, but not much came out of it, I think i mostly got ignored.

It was the RP categories thread for regions, i think.

 

[SallyPirate]

I think the only problem would be for people that take it too seriously , people are allowed to claim areas as long as it follows the rules, claiming you 'own' land that you haven't even paid for is silly.

Following: http://hollowworld.co.uk/threads/new-world-plot-claiming-guide.23059/
Which is linked in the King's Law (Number 8), says that protected areas are based on the number of claimed plots~

 

[Legion]

You are limited here in Altera to 16Km by 16Km square. The sprawling empires you know of DO NOT APPLY to Altera. Land in Altera is far more scarce, and as a result, it is far more expensive. You do not have to have vast expanses to have power. You dont even have the members to populate it anyway, so why is it that you want it so bad?
You dont have the players for it to make sense.
You dont have the cash to purchase it.

There isnt a way to implement realistic countries no matter how we do it, because theres not enough space, and theres not enough people. You get 20 people in one coalition you are doing pretty good. But you want a country because you have 20 people and enough cash to buy a few towns? Don't be ridiculous.

You don't need the land and even if you had it you'd have nothing to do with it except say "I have land." So if you aren't going to buy it, on what basis can you say you deserve it?

 

[Ddaug]

I just would like to point out.. This whole claim thing.. IS ROLE PLAY! Anyone can claim anything. If someone disagrees, they can disagree. Through ROLEPLAY. This a thread that basically outlines what people have claimed... through ROLEPLAY. This is for better, more, and more interesting role play. Someone can always come in a make a new settlement- a new empire can claim the land through roleplay, And people can fight about it through roleplay. Though in OOC, the land is rightfully theirs. I think legion is taking this whole 'My land' far too literal. We arent claiming people cant do stuff in this land. We are just saying that our empire says that its ROLEPLAY influence is there. Not our OOC rule.

 

[DraconDarknight]

I got to both disagree and agree with Legion here:

Honestly, it was tolerated until now, and at least in RP some of those land claims are pretty much established, nor do I see why its suddenly an issue while it hasn't been before.
Its a matter of Role play that is being argued about here.

Going by that you could as well say that every claim to deserts like the Sahara can't be enforced since there is not enough personnel there to keep the law or enough people that actually want to live in the middle of the desert.
The question whether one deserves the land they claim can be asked using every country in the real world too btw.
Starting with the US whose lands belonged to native Americans going all the way down to Australia that actually belonged to the Aborigines.

Note that both of them just claimed the lands and the boarders established themselves throughout time and got accepted by the rest of the world too.

I really don't see why we suddenly can't do that in roleplay anymore.
I think its fine as long as people know that they can't actually enforce it.


So yeah sorry when the Altera Kingdom collapsed people making Rp-land claims was BOUND the happen.
And please let us all remember that the collapse of said Alteran Kingdom was a Staff decision and not players sending letters to the Queen saying that they decide to secede until only Port Silver was left.

The houses were all pretty much accepting being a part of the Altera-Kingdom, they still mainly did their own thing but they accepted being part of the Kingdom, and that notably even though it never bought all the lands it claimed to be its own.
And even if one had rebelled in the past, the Altera-Kingdom could have still raised an army and suppressed that rebellion. Yet the decision was to let it collapse while no one even openly seceded from it.

Oh and lets not bring the recent changes to the peaceful tag in here, while I understand that people want their peaceful zones, they still make me wonder if people actually knew how medieval life used to be.


Back to the matter at hand though, Legion also has a point.
Some of the claims have more than 3500 blocks between a region they actually own, notably in several directions (no matter if people live there).
Thats about twice as much as the way from the spot where PS's Icon is located (dynamap) to the Town of Sorrows's Icon without even owning a single Region between those spots or at least in a 1000 Block perimeter.

i was bored
View attachment 49215
EDIT: i forgot to put in Al'Bathor

You also forgot salts ridge

 

[Baron]

Troo. If you have Point A and Point B you can say you have control over that area, if you had a road or something. Patrol the roads, own the land around them.

 

[Tybalt]

And do what? if its a peaceful town you are stuck.
I mean really this is just vanity. None of you have any real power, either ooc OR rp, over lands you have not actually purchased. You can say you have rp power, sure, and maybe if you are scary enough youll get some people to balk, but it would just be bluffing in the end.

Not when you go raid them. And if they call it a peaceful region, just let them step out of it~

 

[Tybalt]

Theres a system already in place and established for you to have influence over land.
Its called purchasing it. All of you are perfectly capable of purchasing any amount of land youd like. Imagine if Boulderpaul decided to use his money to purchase all the land he could to maximize his influence. Hed have crap tons. But you folk dont want to put in the time to do it. You want it easy, free, even. I mean literally you are attempting to just gain influence over land for free. Its really just incomprehensible. Ignore the fact that none of you have a population to utilize or support that much space, ignore the fact that none of you have significant law enforcement agencies, ignore the fact that as yet none of you have been able to agree on a way to have a war at the end of which someone didnt complain, you still just want land that theres no reason you ought to have, because you dont want to use the system that gives you the option to do it.

Irl kingdoms didn't pay for 16 by 16 feet of land just to say they owned it. And unless your bigger and badder than them too bad.

 

[Tybalt]

Theres nothing against the rules about what you are doing, true. Not that I could make such judgements anyway, Im not actually staff at the moment. But this isnt a good thing to be doing. Nothing good will come of this. Its more of the same "I just want to win" approach to rp that ruins a lot of things. And, if this were allowed to go, I am certain that down the line thered be someone bickering because someone settled in a land they "owned in rp" and then set their town to peaceful and didnt want to participate in anything like a war.

That's when that peaceful town negotiates icly to the nation claiming it and maybe offer to be a settlement to it's kingdoms. And if they don't. That gives us ic reason to dislike them. Not like we can stop them from building

 

[Naelwyn]

Not when you go raid them. And if they call it a peaceful region, just let them step out of it~

I don't think you understand what the peaceful region tag means.

It doesn't just mean "This region opts out", it means "The people living in this region also opt out."

That being said - aside -

(Snipped for length)

Troo. If you have Point A and Point B you can say you have control over that area, if you had a road or something. Patrol the roads, own the land around them.

So...

You're saying if I made a horizontal and vertical line of claims across passing through Y-o and X-o I could claim the map?

Or if I say, bought all the land /around/ an empire and built a giant, GoT wall around it, I could?

Yeah, technically, but then people'd just be mad.

I just want my little place in the mountains and for it to be left alone. Why yes the gritty stuff is more realistic but it's not treated properly and after 2+ years I just want to do something different and something collaborative.

That's what the ratings are there for. Not everybody wants the same kind of roleplay you do, and if you get "collaborative storytelling" you'd get why we have a ratings system.