On Dual-Wielding and Spinning in Fights

[Baron]

No, stop that.

When dual-wielding weapons you're forced to present your entire front to the enemy, as opposed to when wielding one weapon you can face at an angle and present yourself as a much smaller target. Not to mention that dual-wielding any sort of large weapon (i.e. anything larger than a dagger) will exhaust you far, far more rapidly than a single weapon + shield combination and you'll rapidly be left with noodle arms. It looks cool, but it's self-defeating.

On spinning in fights: Yes, you build up momentum for a slash. Yes, you also leave your entire body exposed for 3/4 of the spin and are putting the person trying to kill you out of sight for the entire spin. At this point your inevitable death is ruled a suicide by stupid, since you just turned your exposed back on a guy actively trying to kill you why would you do that.

In a fight, fancy pirouettes and ballet moves will result in a rather hilarious loss.

 

[Tarron]

In a fight, fancy pirouettes and ballet moves will result in a rather hilarious loss.

 

[BarbarianGaming]

Yus...

 

[Ced]

On spinning in fights: Yes, you build up momentum for a slash. Yes, you also leave your entire body exposed for 3/4 of the spin and are putting the person trying to kill you out of sight for the entire spin. At this point your inevitable death is ruled a suicide by stupid, since you just turned your exposed back on a guy actively trying to kill you why would you do that.

In a fight, fancy pirouettes and ballet moves will result in a rather hilarious loss.

Just sort of... Incorrect, really. Yes, fancy shmancy stuff is unnecessary and wastes energy and time (unless it successfully confuses/lowers your opponents guard), but spinning was (and is) a perfectly effective thing to do in certain scenarios. I don't think what you're saying is wrong entirely, you're just vastly generalising, and I guess I disagree with your opinion

I think we have to be a little careful when condemning certain ways of RPing, especially as most of us are not diploma-level experts on the effectiveness of different medieval fighting techniques, and a lot of what we say is pure theory (with varying levels of educated-ness).

Don't forget HW has a myriad of styles and nationalities and cultures and weapons from all sorts of backgrounds, far more than any given point in medieval England, so saying "well this would have been stupid at the time" doesn't work so well, as the 'time' is a span of 1000 years or so, and the person you'll be fighting against and their style/armour/clothing/weaponry is... Not specific, by a long shot.

 

[Baron]

Just sort of... Incorrect, really. Yes, fancy shmancy stuff is unnecessary and wastes energy and time (unless it successfully confuses/lowers your opponents guard), but spinning was (and is) a perfectly effective thing to do in certain scenarios. I don't think what you're saying is wrong entirely, you're just vastly generalising, and I guess I disagree with your opinion

Oh, it's effective in some scenarios, but there's always going to be something better that isn't flashy and doesn't result in you putting your enemy outside your FoV. Spinning is high risk and any option that doesn't leave you entirely blind to what the opponent is doing will always be better.

 

[Teeke]

No, stop that.

When dual-wielding weapons you're forced to present your entire front to the enemy, as opposed to when wielding one weapon you can face at an angle and present yourself as a much smaller target. Not to mention that dual-wielding any sort of large weapon (i.e. anything larger than a dagger) will exhaust you far, far more rapidly than a single weapon + shield combination and you'll rapidly be left with noodle arms. It looks cool, but it's self-defeating.

On spinning in fights: Yes, you build up momentum for a slash. Yes, you also leave your entire body exposed for 3/4 of the spin and are putting the person trying to kill you out of sight for the entire spin. At this point your inevitable death is ruled a suicide by stupid, since you just turned your exposed back on a guy actively trying to kill you why would you do that.

In a fight, fancy pirouettes and ballet moves will result in a rather hilarious loss.

All of this: yes.

Baron, thank you. IT always bothers me when people are "dual wielding greatswords" and spinning like tops. - worse is when they claim this is both incredible effective and makes them unhittable

 

[Gregor]

So you are saying, spinning around with my shortsword will NOT slice plate armor in half?
Oh dear.

 

[The Living Ghost]

*dual-wields rapiers, a large rapier being only 4lb when a large greatsword can be 16lb*

..
*isn't sure on where to go from here*

 

[Baron]

Get some 4lb weights and swing them around continuously for a few minutes, you'll be getting noodle arms in no time

It's fine for quick and clean engagements but if you're really after speed/agility then one sword is generally better.

 

[The Living Ghost]

Get some 4lb weights and swing them around continuously for a few minutes, you'll be getting noodle arms in no time

It's fine for quick and clean engagements but if you're really after speed agility then one sword is generally better.

Ta~

 

[DraconDarknight]

Well baron, according to lore (Except that got changed) Diamonds are not actual diamonds but a material that can be shaped to the wielders wishes. So it is theoretically possible to get a long lightweight blade out of it.

Might be worth asking the Lore team if its possible though.

@Naelwyn @Michcat @Legion

 

[Baron]

That's deprecated Fitzian lore AFAIK.

 

[Scardrac]

-

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"Twin blade" usage is a bit less vauge.

"Dual wielding" can actually be quite useful sometimes. Sometimes being when you have your main weapon to attack with and your other as utility to either block or misdirect attacks.
An example is the rapier + parryin dagger/swordbreaker combo.

 

[Catanomical]

So about the spinning, I agree 100% it leaves the person wide open and etc. where you can easily be attacked. Also is good in same scenarios, but just my opinion from IRL fighting in tournaments where it is just hands and feet. You can fix the problem of loosing your FOV on your enemy, just by looking over the shoulder in the direction you are spinning, while spinning and you do this you can see them just as you did but your feet will be switched. Even works better if you step back or forward with your feet more close to each other to spin more fast so you are not open for a long time. Cause I do what is called a "butterfly kick" When the are on the run, and I have never had a smart person yet kick me in the back or rush in. Other than that having a sword added to it, I can see how spinning and getting noodle arms is possible and very likely and you will be tired after you try to spin to win.

 

[Pirapple]

Get some 4lb weights and swing them around continuously for a few minutes, you'll be getting noodle arms in no time

It's fine for quick and clean engagements but if you're really after speed/agility then one sword is generally better.

That's how I work out... but it's with 10 pound weights... I could go for about half an hour, which is significantly longer than a fight, which should take 5-10 minutes max.

Also, with your theory, spin kicks would be useless, but I've seen people do a spin kick in around a second, which would not give your opponent sufficient time to react, considering that the fastest human reaction time is around 0.3 seconds, giving the body 0.7 seconds to register, respond, and go into action, something that for the average person, is impossible to do.

Using a greatsword and spinning I get that is powergaming, but using something like a dagger, which at most weighs... a pound, completely fine to do that. When you spin, you don't normally spin slow enough to be attacked in the back unless your opponent was already swinging at you. (Then, it's really your fault.)

Dual wielding also is not that horrible. Sure you open yourself up to attacks, but now there is a weapon to block with and a weapon to attack with. For your opponent, it could go bad very quickly, if you block their attacks and suddenly are attacking them at the same time, you'll be done in no time.

I'm just saying that there are situations where it works, and situations where it doesn't.

 

[Gregor]

The thing is, is that its just worse than... doing normal stuff.
In theory it may sound good, but people didn't do it IRL for a reason.

 

[kaza125]

Is there a thread on a tutorial for spears?

 

[dUMMY]

I don't understand how anybody gets anywhere in an RP fight. . .

Look, we're in what's called a medieval FANTASY world. If someone does a spin attack, just role with it. . . But be reasonable. The fantasy part of the classification applies to more than just our setting. And honestly, absolutely nobody here is qualified to know just what would happen when certain techniques are used.

Personally, I'm going to do my best to avoid RP fights at all costs until there is some form of DnD system in place where people's skill level cannot be lied about and the combat mechanics are all roles based on that skill. Until then, we will have these text walls faffing about on what you can and cannot do in a fight/ what you should and should not do. It gets more convoluted every time I read about it.

These experts say we're all wrong anyway:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/Swordfighting-Not.html#.U5DFuIm9Kc0

 

[Gregor]

I would love having such a DnD system that is a bit better than just plain rolls.
Now its just RP until one gives up.

 

[Scardrac]

I don't understand how anybody gets anywhere in an RP fight. . .

Look, we're in what's called a medieval FANTASY world. If someone does a spin attack, just role with it. . . But be reasonable. The fantasy part of the classification applies to more than just our setting. And honestly, absolutely nobody here is qualified to know just what would happen when certain techniques are used.

Personally, I'm going to do my best to avoid RP fights at all costs until there is some form of DnD system in place where people's skill level cannot be lied about and the combat mechanics are all roles based on that skill. Until then, we will have these text walls faffing about on what you can and cannot do in a fight/ what you should and should not do. It gets more convoluted every time I read about it.

These experts say we're all wrong anyway:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/Swordfighting-Not.html#.U5DFuIm9Kc0

Well, a lot of the time, debates are brought up in fights because of image misunderstanding. One person may assume he is doing this one thing against someone who is doing that one thing while the other person sees it another way. That is why DnD style makes it easier, because it doesn't go into detail about the attack and just go with what happens, making it succeed or fail. Personally, I like debates about realistic attacks/defenses, when the person isn't being an absurdity.

Being vague is also a horrible thing to do when you roleplay fight like that. Saying you have a "really sharp sword" and have done no research on what the actual sword is, it messes up the system. I don't think the current system should be demolished, as people who do research and think reasonably and logically can have a fun time debating what would or would not happen.