After-Action Breakwater Discussion

[Lannis]

(Posting "elsewhere-")

As the acting DM and one that made the decision behind what I'm guessing prompted this thread, would like to elucidate. I made the call to let the RP continue after it was seemingly winding down- was midnight for Europefolk, and the event looked to be at a stopping point. Was hereabouts that the still-intact keep launched a two-man rescue attempt for Anhaldian prisoners, which'd effectively mitigate the worst of their personnel loss. I swung in favor of allowing the RP to continue for a few reasons, foremost being that the number of coalition members still present at the region equaled the total number of Anhald folk there, and more than outnumbered the pair of would-be rescuers. Furthermore, there was indication from coalition forces that they no longer prioritized taking the keep, and instead began focusing on how to leave.
To those of you that had to log off, I apologize- Your ability to have your character react got shafted, and that's not the situation that I'd prefer. It was a product of timezones and scheduling that you had no control over, and I get why folk are upset.
I'm tentatively reopening this to discussion; can be upset at me all y'want, but there's to be mutual respect between the parties involved. Hit me with alternatives or how else y'think it should have been done, will do my best to respond.

 

[Cap]

things i liked a helluva lot

- war
- no consent bullshitting
- good DMing
- fair outcome
- good combat RP
- good story and drama

things i aint liked one bit

- whining at the end (from both sides)
- random delays????????
- i didn't get notified about an event in my city until like two days before it went down
- folks had to log off on both sides due to poor scheduling
- miscommunications
- minor metagaming issues that iirc are settled now

 

[Rygan]

I don't quite understand why there's such a huge drawback from the coalition side - It might not have been a total, favourable victory but our escape could have easily been stopped (say if Glados had stayed online with his cavalry instead of logging off, rallying those still left) and we had to fight for it without armour. In addition, you guys kicked our shit in. You burned our capitol, forced us to route without our horses, armour and weapons, killed one of our top 5 combat RPers and fairly beat us with your plan. You won. Three of us escaping doesn't change that, dudes.

copy pasted from cyber's thread since he intends to delete it

 

[Snerus]

On a more positive note, I absolutely loved today's RP. The siege was absolutely riveting, and the combat was top notch, on both sides. For such a large gathering of people, I noticed remarkably few arguments or instances where clarification was needed during the ground battle, which utterly astounds me. Props to everybody for being so professional and expedient with the combat, and a huge thanks to the admins for managing all this.

Why we're snapping at each other's heels OOCly is something beyond me. Victories and defeats were had by both sides. The Coalition took Breakwater, but lost more troops in the process. Anhald managed to come away with most of it's soldiers (Sorry Mitch ), but now Peter's on the run. Personally, like Cap , I thought everything went fairly for both parties.

Everyone did spectacularly, and at the end of the day I had a ton of fun, with all the RP.

 

[Rygan]

On a more positive note, I absolutely loved today's RP. The siege was absolutely riveting, and the combat was top notch, on both sides. For such a large gathering of people, I noticed remarkably few arguments or instances where clarification was needed during the ground battle, which utterly astounds me. Props to everybody for being so professional and expedient with the combat, and a huge thanks to the admins for managing all this.

Why we're snapping at each other's heels OOCly is something beyond me. Victories and defeats were had by both sides. The Coalition took Breakwater, but lost more troops in the process. Anhald managed to come away with most of it's soldiers (Sorry Mitch ), but now Peter's on the run. Personally, like Cap , I thought everything went fairly for both parties.

Everyone did spectacularly, and at the end of the day I had a ton of fun, with all the RP.

This is largely how I felt about it as well.

 

[Smurf]

-Was about to copy and paste as well, but he deleted it. I really don't have the drive after a long day to re-type it all, so oh well.

Anyways. I liked the RP, but not the OOC saltiness and suuuuch- basically all that Cap said above.

 

[The Courier]

Sif killed the man escorting Vlad and had opted to take Vlad with him and jumped Ailil who was guarding the prisoners. Vlad covered the rear, stopping Eltsir and Nyhllis' approach while Sif got the prisoners out and dealt with Ailil. Resulting in their freedom. He then stayed back to keep up the resistance, as Peter said "Fight until you can fight no longer." "Breakwater is now your's and Emrys'."

I will add- I never once made it not known Sif was in the keep. He was actively moving around and keeping a look out. Everyone knew he was in there.

That's just what I was saying last thread for those who were griping about people leaving.

 

[Rygan]

To add -

Why be disappointed it's not all over? This is a war, and now we can have more battles and enjoy moments just as good as the ones that we had today.

 

[Magiik]

...
You beat me to this, Lannis. You monster. Does the International Dibs Treaty of Versailles of 1673 not mean anything to you?!

I was typing something long, but, honestly, I feel it may be best to respond to some of the stuff already on here. Brace yourselves for massive edit.
EDIT:

I don't quite understand why there's such a huge drawback from the coalition side - It might not have been a total, favourable victory but our escape could have easily been stopped (say if Glados had stayed online with his cavalry instead of logging off, rallying those still left) and we had to fight for it without armour. In addition, you guys kicked our shit in. You burned our capitol, forced us to route without our horses, armour and weapons, killed one of our top 5 combat RPers and fairly beat us with your plan. You won. Three of us escaping doesn't change that, dudes.

Again, thanks for that. I'll be honest, one of the main worries is that this won't be considered a victory solely because Sif came and busted out the prisoners after everyone left. It's really a fear that it was all for naught. Your words are comforting.

On a more positive note, I absolutely loved today's RP. The siege was absolutely riveting, and the combat was top notch, on both sides. For such a large gathering of people, I noticed remarkably few arguments or instances where clarification was needed during the ground battle, which utterly astounds me. Props to everybody for being so professional and expedient with the combat, and a huge thanks to the admins for managing all this.

Why we're snapping at each other's heels OOCly is something beyond me. Victories and defeats were had by both sides. The Coalition took Breakwater, but lost more troops in the process. Anhald managed to come away with most of it's soldiers (Sorry Mitch ), but now Peter's on the run. Personally, like Cap , I thought everything went fairly for both parties.

Everyone did spectacularly, and at the end of the day I had a ton of fun, with all the RP.

Define fun. My legs were shaking and my heart was racing and- Oh, wait.
Seriously, though, this is fun in the way that I don't think I can do it again for at least a month. It was really enjoyable, particularly seeing our cannons do their work, but there's just something about combat rp that makes me never want to do it again, yet I keep finding myself drawn to it.

Sif killed the man escorting Vlad and had opted to take Vlad with him and jumped Ailil who was guarding the prisoners. Vlad covered the rear, stopping Eltsir and Nyhllis' approach while Sif got the prisoners out and dealt with Ailil. Resulting in their freedom. He then stayed back to keep up the resistance, as Peter said "Fight until you can fight no longer." "Breakwater is now your's and Emrys'."

I will add- I never once made it not known Sif was in the keep. He was actively moving around and keeping a look out. Everyone knew he was in there.

That's just what I was saying last thread for those who were griping about people leaving.

I knew Sif was in there OOCly, though Ater had no idea, but I can vouch for you. I'll be honest, the situation is complicated. I can tell you what my thoughts are, but... I'm the Coalition guy speaking in a thread made up so far of a majority of the other side. I also don't want to be accused of starting a massive OOC fight or trying to start drama, and I also don't want my thoughts to be considered the only thoughts of the Coalition members.
That being said, while the following thoughts are mine, I do not mean to accuse you of anything and do not mean to start a fight. I'm legitimately curious, and feel that, if not addressed, this will only lead to future OOC fighting. Please let's be civil:
The timing of it makes it look as though you waited for a majority of the Coalition to log off before striking.
(Seriously, though, Sif could have gone out when we were all there and still given us a run for our money)

To add -

Why be disappointed it's not all over? This is a war, and now we can have more battles and enjoy moments just as good as the ones that we had today.

Last one. Again, as above, I don't think any of us is disappointed about the war not being over. It's more the fear that our victory won't be considered a victory.

 

[CloakedReaper]

Before Magiik edits, like Blitzkrieg, I shall post first

This isn't aimed at the end of the conflict (from today, at least), more so the beginning. Now, I'm gonna preface, this is not at all suppose to be dirt being flung at anyone, more so a topic for discussion in this thread.

At the beginning of the battle, the naval battle commenced between two rather undermanned warships - five people to each for a crew. If Eyes of Silas has taught me anything, we'd get totally wrecked with that kind of a crew during a storm. However, we were facing off against two ballistas (in total). For the beginning, we faced off against only a single one.

I know this was a topic of some unrest among people I talked to, and they're going to stay unnamed, but we felt it was a bit..off to have two warships basically get hamstrung and almost beaten by a single ballista. I've had time to think on this, and I came to the conclusion that it was because of the rolls we were using. While somewhat fair to both sides, I feel it didn't make a lot of sense for a warship, with multiple people firing their own cannons, to have their shots be determined by a single roller on the ship. Each were aiming at the target on their own - but the salvos seemed to do absolutely nothing because one guy rolled too low, penalizing everyone else.

The alternative that I see would have been to have everyone fire individually - which would have been waaaay too much work on Lannis for DMing. Rough headcount by memory says that would have been 5+ rolls each 'round' of combat. That's insane, and not very viable to work with.

Again, just something I noticed, and I figured I may as well leave it here. I'm not throwing dirt mixed with salt from tears, just wanting to add to the discussion, so I don't see any reason why not to. Discussion like this can only make future events more enjoyable for everyone.

 

[Cap]

cannons can't aim lol, you have to turn the ship

one ballista with fire arrows wrecking shop was realistic

 

[Magiik]

Reaper, seriously, what did I just say about the Dibs Treaty?!

Also, edited. Have fun.

 

[Heie]

Thanks DM's for your help in event! For the most part it ran fairly smoothly for the size and scope of the event. The fighting went about as I expected. When even numbers, the Anhalds better trained troops (as every citizen in anhald is a soldier) and defensive positions gave them the upper hand. Coalition came back when they were reinforced with there superior numbers. The things I struggled with was when combat would start. A wall of text would appear and it was easy to miss things as you tried to follow everything as the text spammed the screen. It also made noticing surroundings difficult also. I think in future battles, PM'ing your target would be appreciated. Other than that it went smoother than expected.

P.S. Have to hand it to the Anhald's for their creative defenses.

 

[The Courier]

I knew Sif was in there OOCly, though Ater had no idea, but I can vouch for you. I'll be honest, the situation is complicated. I can tell you what my thoughts are, but... I'm the Coalition guy speaking in a thread made up so far of a majority of the other side. I also don't want to be accused of starting a massive OOC fight or trying to start drama, and I also don't want my thoughts to be considered the only thoughts of the Coalition members.
That being said, while the following thoughts are mine, I do not mean to accuse you of anything and do not mean to start a fight. I'm legitimately curious, and feel that, if not addressed, this will only lead to future OOC fighting. Please let's be civil:
The timing of it makes it look as though you waited for a majority of the Coalition to log off before striking.
(Seriously, though, Sif could have gone out when we were all there and still given us a run for our money)

You might not know- But Sif snuck out to that ballista right above all of you at the tourney grounds and was about to fire it all down upon your heads. Only he didn't as it'd make too much noise being loaded. I was also told some people went back to the ships to leave and what not, apparently there were methods outta there that we, the Anhald side, didn't know of. Go ahead and give me your thoughts fam, I'm a chill d00d so not like I'll get my panties in a knot.

 

[Rygan]

Yeah, as long as your opinions aren't "jajaja dirty anhald nazis kill selves" I'm A-OK, USA.

 

[Cap]

vorwarts mit unserem jason

anhald reich lives on to conquer the poor oppressed peons

 

[Cymic_]

Also- Some of us would still be at Breakwater ICly. I understand this has been answered already as in, "Sorry, better luck next time", but these things are taken into account when attacking towns as well. You have to consider who would be there ICly and schedule something.

 

[Cap]

y'all folks is going to have to do another event if you want to continue a breakwater conflict

 

[The Courier]

Also- Some of us would still be at Breakwater ICly. I understand this has been answered already as in, "Sorry, better luck next time", but these things are taken into account when attacking towns as well. You have to consider who would be there ICly and schedule something.

I figured you all were, that's why I stayed behind IC and am eager to become the Vietcong.

 

[Smurf]

Agreeing here with Cap- little unscheduled attacks won't lead to a good ending. Violent events? Eh, sounds okay.