After-Action Breakwater Discussion

[Jazzper]

Rolling does allow a baby silver elf to slay Sigurd.
All the baby needs is a 20.

 

[Archbishop]

And when one person prefers their characters RP combat skills, and the other person demands rolling? What then? What's the compromise?

You simply act like an adult and work it out with the other person. And assuming that a compromise fails through, you appeal to the local DM. You accept that things can get dirty in the heat of the moment and move on.

 

[JustTooRadical]

I enjoyed the event, for the most part. The only bit that pissed me off was the super-long delay at the beginning, which I knew couldn't have been saved.
But yeah, it was fun, until I had to leave early.

 

[Friosis]

There is a whole lot of 'what' in this statement, even more so related to the 'Staff almost never use the roll system' and I've read over this and I still don't understand what you're trying to say.

If you look again, I wasn't saying "Staff never use the roll system.", I'm saying staff never use the roll system, but then decide outcomes that are unaffected by the rolls. In the case of a ranged fight, if I roll a twenty to shoot you with a bow, I shouldn't be told "Oh I don't think that weapon works like that, you miss." (especially when the person saying this is wrong), and then somebody else throws a knife and instantly kills me because "It's more fun that way". That just feels biased and purposefully ignorant, even if it's not meant to be.

The second paragraph is a complaint about the beginning and end of the event, where both sides were screwed because people logged off due to delays and misinformation about the event's starting/ending point. Normally someone is told to make an event or wait for more players when they do something to impact a group negatively, when said group is mostly offline or some recently logged off.

The third section is just my feelings overall about the solutions decided upon, which don't match up to what has been the precedent.

 

[Smurf]

I am worried about the inconsistent nature of rule enforcement and stacf behavior as of late.

Staff almost never use the roll system and then decide the outcome while ignoring both the result of the roll and the realistic scenario, as had happened here. It feels like bias when one person has their high rolls ignored for being unrealistic to the staff, and then next person pulling off something near impossible in real life because of a high roll.

And there are rules about this:
People who log off don't just have their characters dissapear. Telling them "sorry, better luck next time" isn't fair and isn't how the staff have ever handled this issue before.

This kind of inconsistent enforcement has happened several times now, and it's become very concerning.

Rolls were used for ballista and canon aiming, which seems pretty fair to me. People logging off was their own choice; Nick made it loud and clear that Sif was still in the castle, ready to defend it. Sure, people have real-life duties to attend to- but this was the case for both sides. One thing that I do not understand is why most on the side opposing Anhald are whining over a battle in which they had a clear win. It's childish.

Criticizing of staff from someone that wasn't there (I think), and generally isn't active anymore IG, (again, might be timezones), isn't very great either. All of the information being fed to that person is a. biased and b. secondhand. There is a reason that courts in real life don't accept second hand jibber jabber- half of the time it is wrong, exaggerated, etc. In my opinion, Lannis and Solus (the only two DMs I interacted with) did a fantastic job in keeping things civil OOC. In addressing the rolls- they were used for ballista and canon aiming. No character is going to be an expert in either of those things unless it is their profession- and the characters that I witnessed going back and forth were not. So, rolls for aim seemed the best choice for everyone. It kept things quick, concise, and clear. This is coming from someone that generally dislikes the roll system because it does not count in character experience. But it is the easiest way to settle things when an all-out battle is going on around a DM. They can't moderate every little action.

The second paragraph is a complaint about the beginning and end of the event, where both sides were screwed because people logged off due to delays and misinformation about the event's starting/ending point. Normally someone is told to make an event or wait for more players when they do something to impact a group negatively, when said group is mostly offline or some recently logged off.

In adressing this- Anhald was given a 2-day OOC warning about an attack. It should have been a week notice, or even more. Delays were because the times weren't very great, sure- and because WEing tons of ships takes time.

 

[Centurion]

I am worried about the inconsistent nature of rule enforcement and stacf behavior as of late.

Staff almost never use the roll system and then decide the outcome while ignoring both the result of the roll and the realistic scenario, as had happened here. It feels like bias when one person has their high rolls ignored for being unrealistic to the staff, and then next person pulling off something near impossible in real life because of a high roll.

And there are rules about this:
People who log off don't just have their characters dissapear. Telling them "sorry, better luck next time" isn't fair and isn't how the staff have ever handled this issue before.

This kind of inconsistent enforcement has happened several times now, and it's become very concerning.

The first half of this didn't happen at the event, and I will expect you not speak on my or our behalf on this matter again, as you were not present.

 

[Elz]

Also to add, with rolling and people logging off and the like, that there were a serious amount of people at the event itself. I believe there were 2-3 DMs, and handling that amount of people to each individual is satisfied would require a hell of a lot more work.
I think they did a great job, and I think theres much more RP to come as a result of.. The results. Its exciting stuff. c:

 

[Centurion]

Rolls were used for ballista and canon aiming, which seems pretty fair to me. People logging off was their own choice; Nick made it loud and clear that Sif was still in the castle, ready to defend it. Sure, people have real-life duties to attend to- but this was the case for both sides. One thing that I do not understand is why most on the side opposing Anhald are whining over a battle in which they had a clear win. It's childish.

Criticizing of staff from someone that wasn't there (I think), and generally isn't active anymore IG, (again, might be timezones), isn't very great either. All of the information being fed to that person is a. biased and b. secondhand. There is a reason that courts in real life don't accept second hand jibber jabber- half of the time it is wrong, exaggerated, etc. In my opinion, Lannis and Solus (the only two DMs I interacted with) did a fantastic job in keeping things civil OOC. In addressing the rolls- they were used for ballista and canon aiming. No character is going to be an expert in either of those things unless it is their profession- and the characters that I witnessed going back and forth were not. So, rolls for aim seemed the best choice for everyone. It kept things quick, concise, and clear. This is coming from someone that generally dislikes the roll system because it does not count in character experience. But it is the easiest way to settle things when an all-out battle is going on around a DM. They can't moderate every little action.



In adressing this- Anhald was given a 2-day OOC warning about an attack. It should have been a week notice, or even more. Delays were because the times weren't very great, sure- and because WEing tons of ships takes time.

I will not have you either starting disputes over supposed whining, especially while you yourself spent a long bit of time in my victory declaration thread complaining about it yourself. This matter on my end can and will be dealt with by myself and although I do not appreciate Padragin's tone, I do not appreciate yours here either.

On the record, I feel as though the event itself was executed perfectly. I have simply a qualm with how the aftermath was handled on both sides and by staff.

Never did I, the leader of this coalition, say that this is a defeat. The battle was an overwhelming victory due to the damage inflicted on both their morale and public image, not to mention Anhald lands. I expect it will not be the last time there will be a battle.

 

[Smurf]

I will not have you either starting disputes over supposed whining, especially while you yourself spent a long bit of time in my victory declaration thread complaining about it yourself. This matter on my end can and will be dealt with by myself and although I do not appreciate Padragin's tone, I do not appreciate yours here either.

On the record, I feel as though the event itself was executed perfectly. I have simply a qualm with how the aftermath was handled on both sides and by staff.

Never did I, the leader of this coalition, say that this is a defeat. The battle was an overwhelming victory due to the damage inflicted on both their morale and public image, not to mention Anhald lands. I expect it will not be the last time there will be a battle.

Alright. I did not spend my time on your thread whining. You need to stop taking pot shots at me whenever you can. My post is my opinion on the event. If you have problems with my opinion, take it to me in private. Cut the crap, Glados. I'm completely and utterly tired of you throwing disgusting, rude comments at myself and my friends. Grow up.

This is a thread to discuss things. Not shoot them down. My opinions will not change because someone filled with hate takes shots at me.

 

[Friosis]

Rolls were used for ballista and canon aiming, which seems pretty fair to me. People logging off was their own choice; Nick made it loud and clear that Sif was still in the castle, ready to defend it. Sure, people have real-life duties to attend to- but this was the case for both sides. One thing that I do not understand is why most on the side opposing Anhald are whining over a battle in which they had a clear win. It's childish.

Criticizing of staff from someone that wasn't there (I think), and generally isn't active anymore IG, (again, might be timezones), isn't very great either. All of the information being fed to that person is a. biased and b. secondhand. There is a reason that courts in real life don't accept second hand jibber jabber- half of the time it is wrong, exaggerated, etc. In my opinion, Lannis and Solus (the only two DMs I interacted with) did a fantastic job in keeping things civil OOC. In addressing the rolls- they were used for ballista and canon aiming. No character is going to be an expert in either of those things unless it is their profession- and the characters that I witnessed going back and forth were not. So, rolls for aim seemed the best choice for everyone. It kept things quick, concise, and clear. This is coming from someone that generally dislikes the roll system because it does not count in character experience. But it is the easiest way to settle things when an all-out battle is going on around a DM. They can't moderate every little action.

I don't care who won, I am not speaking for you or Glados because the entire event outcome doesn't concern me. What concerns me is how things were handled by staff, which is why i'm complaining about it without addressing either side. Stop assuming i'm trying to speak for you or anyone else, because i'm not.

I'm not complaining about the quality of the event either, it could have been godly and everything except a few mistakes could have been the best things ever, i'm still going to criticize those mistakes because that's what they are, mistakes.

Alright. I did not spend my time on your thread whining. You need to stop taking pot shots at me whenever you can. My post is my opinion on the event. If you have problems with my opinion, take it to me in private. Cut the crap, Glados. I'm completely and utterly tired of you throwing disgusting, rude comments at myself and my friends. Grow up.

All you ever do is tell people to grow up, and then say "Oh stop pot shotting me" whenever you make the SAME mistakes and people call you out for it. You say "stop taking pot shots" and in the SAME post, complain that Glados has no argument outside of not liking you or your friends. "Stop taking potshots and being childish" while also trying to argue that "I don't participate in the server anymore and wasn't at the event" in order to silence my criticism. Seriously?

 

[Solus]

Take it to private conversations to clear your airs or cool it off by not responding to each other. Keep on topic.

 

[Smurf]

This is a thread to discuss things. Not shoot them down. My opinions will not change because someone filled with hate takes shots at me.

As I said.

 

[Centurion]

Alright. I did not spend my time on your thread whining. You need to stop taking pot shots at me whenever you can. My post is my opinion on the event. If you have problems with my opinion, take it to me in private. Cut the crap, Glados. I'm completely and utterly tired of you throwing disgusting, rude comments at myself and my friends. Grow up.

This is a thread to discuss things. Not shoot them down. My opinions will not change because someone filled with hate takes shots at me.

I am not taking pot-shots at you, Smurf. I am giving my own input to this thread that is, at this point, overdue, per the position that I hold IC and OOC regarding this Coalition. I have thrown no disgusting or rude comments at you or your friends, and unless you can prove otherwise, I suggest you stop taking fairly played in character events so harshly out of character. If you had a problem with the outcome of this event, you might wish to think back on how harshly you mocked all involved with the destruction of your region and faction in character when they threatened it, and start communicating with people OOC in a manner that's not vigorous shitposting from a presumed seat of power that has clearly been proven otherwise. These are my final words on your attitude. I would advise and ask that you do not spend any more time in this feedback thread attempting to make me look bad.

 

[Friosis]

As I said.

Are you serious?

 

[Smurf]

I am not taking pot-shots at you, Smurf. I am giving my own input to this thread that is, at this point, overdue, per the position that I hold IC and OOC regarding this Coalition. I have thrown no disgusting or rude comments at you or your friends, and unless you can prove otherwise, I suggest you stop taking fairly played in character events so harshly out of character. If you had a problem with the outcome of this event, you might wish to think back on how harshly you mocked all involved with the destruction of your region and faction in character when they threatened it, and start communicating with people OOC in a manner that's not vigorous shitposting from a presumed seat of power that has clearly been proven otherwise. These are my final words on your attitude. I would advise and ask that you do not spend any more time in this feedback thread attempting to make me look bad.

Message me on the forums if you have an issue with me, jesus christ.

Are you serious?

See above.

Rerail, staff have already told you to.

 

[Tempy_]

Might I suggest a complete stop in the current with no more comments beyond this point on the specific matter, as other wise this thread is bound to be locked down.

 

[Sadko]

this thread went retarded

 

[Smurf]

Same thing I've been saying, Tempy.

Anywho. Back onto the discussssion.
Another thing I'd like to comment on that could not have been stopped by staff was the non-evident powergaming- i.e. people guiding others through actions over skype calls because they had better advantages on the person that was being fought against.

OOC things aside, the event was lovely. I'm looking forward to another like it. Making HW lively again.

 

[Centurion]

Assumed powergaming was likely the product of the plan that I had conveyed to each and every individual in the coalition, from start to finish, which was followed to the letter, essentially. Part of OOC coordination during one of these events is communicating with relevant commanding individuals to ensure that everything is running smoothly, not to make situations play in our favor. Parties going aground to help the first ground party was outlined very specifically in the quite long strategic post that I wrote out in our private conversation, and nothing in the event concerning strategy was changed on the fly or at all, as far as I have seen. Nobody was on a skype call, at least inclusive of myself (the in and out of character leader and director of the Coalition's side of this battle). Lannis can also state in this thread that the actions taken by both parties was in line with what had previously been decided on in-game and on the forums for this encounter.

 

[Smurf]

Assumed powergaming was likely the product of the plan that I had conveyed to each and every individual in the coalition, from start to finish, which was followed to the letter, essentially. Part of OOC coordination during one of these events is communicating with relevant commanding individuals to ensure that everything is running smoothly, not to make situations play in our favor. Parties going aground to help the first ground party was outlined very specifically in the quite long strategic post that I wrote out in our private conversation, and nothing in the event concerning strategy was changed on the fly or at all, as far as I have seen. Nobody was on a skype call, at least inclusive of myself (the in and out of character leader and director of the Coalition's side of this battle). Lannis can also state in this thread that the actions taken by both parties was in line with what had previously been decided on in-game and on the forums for this encounter.

It did not involve you. While it was someone on your 'side,' it was between them and someone that has previously been banned here. Not anything about you, man.

As far as myself 'acting bad' on this thread goes- it is all about tone, something that you can't tell with text. If you chose to read it angrily and full of hostility, so be it. But I wrote it in a calm, composed manner.