An Interesting Problem

[pyrocide]

I noticed an ongoing trend, and I wanted to highlight it and finally raise it up to the community to discuss on how we can fix or at least curb said issue.

The trend is that many different groups/organizations are trying to force the perception that the members of their group is to be "feared." They are trying to force players to take actions that the character wouldn't normally take, have emotions and thoughts that may not be what a character actually would have, ect ect.

Now, I'm not saying that when the PS guard for example tells you to respect them that this is a bad thing. It's logical that most people should have a healthy level of respect and maybe even fear for the guard. The issue becomes when every group says that they are the organization to be feared, there becomes an inconsistency of power.

"What does that mean?" you may be asking yourself. What I mean by an inconsistency of power is this: The level of power that each organization holds is inconsistent between each player's mind. The players that are playing as PS guards think they are the most powerful force, the Inquisitors may think the Inquisitors are, and the Bandits think the Bandits are, and the assassins think that the assassins are the most powerful. This is part of why we see open defiance against the peacekeepers of the server. "Don't sit on the roof" and in response we've had more people on the roofs than we used to. Some people are allowing themselves to be jailed, others run. Some fight. In the last two instances, this is a simple disrespect of the law, and because the players view the law as powerless.

There will never be respect for the throne, or any other group, unless the playerbase buys into these groups having power. So how do you make the players buy into the power the organizations have?

My first idea was to propose a system in which there is a tangible ranking of the different groups. Of course, that idea died pretty quickly, as the already established inconsistency of power makes ranking the different groups impossible. Sure, the Silvercloaks should be one of the most powerful groups, the guardsmen of the king and all. However, simply because they are the king's men, does that really make them better than, say for instance, the assassins? And what of the groups that actively live and prosper outside the rule of the king, like the Bandits? If they continue to live without being crushed by the king's army or forced into the empire, are they not better than the king's men? As you can see a ranking system of power is impossible.

So how do we get the playerbase to buy into the idea that the guards and other groups have power? I can't see how to give players the carrot, so to say, but I can see giving players the stick. Punishment must be swift and severe so that the player, and not just the character, knows to abide by the law in the future. Not just the law though, as the bandits and all the other evil groups need to be able to wield power as well, otherwise the power is simply unbalanced in some people's favor and against others'.


So, what does the community think? Currently, all groups really seem to hold no real power. Is there a way to give power to all groups, without unbalancing the amount of power, respective of each organization, with the end goal of having the players act more realistically towards powerful organizations?

 

[Jak]

The problem for me as an Inquisitor was there was no real threat to anything we could do. Everyone who got captured would be released, as although the punishment should be death we can't kill them. Making hollow threats means respect is lost, so on it goes.

 

[Rextoret]

Hmm. Truly is an interesting problem. Perhaps if we strengthen a group's power in a certain area, but decrease/eliminate it elsewhere? The Silvercloaks would have immense power within the King's areas, but have nearly no footholds anywhere else? But that's just a idea, albeit a poor one.

In my opinion, the Bandits as a group seem almost non-existent. Do they have a stronghold somewhere? A town where Bandits collectively gather? If not, perhaps giving them somewhere that they are the law will make them more of a tangible threat.

In terms of power between groups, it's somewhat difficult to accomplish in Minecraft. Perhaps we could make some form of 'Group Format' card that each group is made to fill out? (The card might include cities where their presence is known, etc.) Perhaps that could give us a clearer look at the group's power in more simpler and easy to read terms than what we can gather from reactions in-game.

 

[Seth_Jenkins]

It would all depend really on a ranking of powers in these organisations. In medieval times, you have the King and the King's Guard, now it's alright saying there most powerful, but from a medieval point of view, up until the Tudor Era, the Church was more powerful than state, along with it's groups, so thereofre, these groups would need ranking.

Now, I absolutely understand what you're meaning Pyrocide and it's a valid point, but the problem is just enforcing it and then ranking each group that emerges and then ranking these groups as they develop in RP, but on the whole it'll be really long-winded to create this atmosphere as even though we can say this 100s of times, nobody seems to listen. Yes, there may be exceptions, but even if your a Darkblood, you would fear the Inquisition as well, they are massive and evil and one of the ruling powers, even if your followong Grief, you don't attack or disobey people with supreme power over you it's common sense.

I wonder if we'll ever be able to actually put down this RP atmosphere of groups with power...

 

[Spark]

I can't see this being an easy question to answer. As you said, people want their organisation or favourite organisation to be the most powerful. I think it would help if people were to separate their out of character feelings with their characters. Some people will become in-character friends with someone completely unrealistic such as a church member and a heretic, just because they are real life/OOC friends. The same goes for people OOC feelings. Sure you might think your character is not scared or intimidated by the guards(for example) but your character should be. This is just simple roleplay that a lot of people are lacking. I see demons being friendly and having a joke around in a pub with humans. Is that really the right thing to do? I highly doubt it.
Demon: Rawr, are you scared? tehe
Peasant: Nope, tag your it.
Demon: One sec I just need to rip off this guys head and eat his entrails.
Peasant: Sure thing I can wait.

This goes for guards too, you might think your character should be standing up to guards or assassins but should they really?

The same goes for organisations, I doubt there is a logical way to spread power but it is common sense really. say your character is a farmer, they are standing outside the Merry Mead and an assassin kills someone, that brings fear into the eyes of the bystander but would they then be scared of the assassins after that if they are innocent of all crimes and peaceful? Not really. But a high ranking noble who has screwed over a lot of other rich families to get where he is now would be, because he knows someone could want him dead.

A tramp sitting on a street corner wouldn't be scared of a group of bandits because he/she has nothing worth stealing so the bandits would most likely leave them alone. Whereas a nobleman in fine robes would run for his life as he knows they would likely mug him because his possessions are valuable and worth stealing.

well that's my thoughts on the situation..

 

[pyrocide]

@jak
That's exactly what I mean. No one is actually afraid of any other organization, because as you said you are not allowed to follow through with any real punishment because you have to have that player's permission to even do it.

What do you think could be changed to fix that?

@Rex
I like that idea of regional power you've got going on. It does make a ton of sense that the Silvercloaks are most powerful in PS, but at the Cove they will have a hard time forcing their will on the Pirates. Perhaps something more can come from this angle.

@Seth
I think you can see why I so quickly deserted the notion of a strict ranking system. I understand where you're coming from, but like jak said, players don't feel like any of the groups actually have any power, so what's there to fear from attacking or disrespecting the Slivercloaks when you're a bandits? We can try to tell them to behave and be logical, but as you said that hasn't and probably won't work, unfortunately.


@Spark
I agree with your thoughts, but as Seth said, the server has tried to persuade the playerbase to act logically for their character, with little to no success. Is there some mechanical solution you can think of that might persuade those who seem to be ignoring the polite requests? Also, I totally agree about the acting how you should with demons, but I think that should also be tempered with how often demons appear. For the past month, every time I've gone to PS there's at least one demon there causing trouble. I really don't want all of my roleplays to be "fight/run from/be scared of the demon!" So recently I've been taking to ignoring them or walking away from roleplays that involve them. Lessen their visits and I'll be fine with correctly reacting to them, you know?

 

[Jak]

Well, I saw Tomahawk do something with a prisoner. He stuck them in a cage, gave them a knife and told them that was the only way out, that they would be given food and kept alive. If you commit suicide then you are not revived... So they would either have to rp in a cell the whole time, escape with help or make a new character.

I liked it, it was inventive.

 

[pyrocide]

That's pretty awesome. Do you remember what happened to the prisoner?

 

[Jak]

New character.

 

[Spark]

Perhaps some kind of rating based on the nature of the organisation and their actions in RP? But instead of just fear there are multiple scales/measurements? I could go into more detail if your interested but if the concept is a no go I won't pain myself any longer by typing on this damn phone :
EDIT: I like that idea!

But then comes the *crycry* "I don't want RP forced on me" *crycry*

 

[Michcat]

I liked it, it was inventive.

*Ahem*!

Thats what I've been telling him for weeeeeekss!!
"Jail them. They can't go "o lol I got revived" and abuse any system that way. "
( I'm looking at you, Sisterhood-Abusers )

 

[pyrocide]

Nice.

Let's take that and look at it from a bigger perspective. Toma actually in that moment had power. He forced a punishment onto another player. Final Death; no return. Sadly it's one of the few things that can be leveraged as punishment. I don't think we can use fines, because people can simply refuse to pay them... jail time seems negatable since players could simply log out and do something else while imprisoned... homes and businesses can't be looted or confiscated... But forcing a permanent death is something that could be done.

Perhaps something could be expanded on from this.

 

[Rextoret]

*Ahem*!

Thats what I've been telling him for weeeeeekss!!
"Jail them. They can't go "o lol I got revived" and abuse any system that way. ( I'm looking at you, Sisterhood-Abusers )

If I was running a RP server, I'd impose some form of revive limitations. But that's hard to do without getting neck-deep in screwing around with plugins and programming to change the way Minecraft works.

 

[Rextoret]

Playing off my last post as well as Pyro's, I would vouch for perma-death.

 

[Michcat]

Perhaps something could be expanded on from this.

Should be noted that the Sisterhood is not aligned politically and will not help the Crown or the Silvercloaks. Thats not to say you can't claim they would, but...

 

[Itzzaboy]

I think the only fair way of doing it would be to set up some sort of ranking system where you would gain reputation and power by fulfilling certain roles. Roles that should already have power in the first place could be given it by commands, such as the Church and the Silvercloaks, but it still leaves the other organisations room to challenge this.

How viable it is in say a plugin or whatever I have no clue, and whether it works as intended is also another question entirely, i'm just trying to spew ideas.

 

[K9]

I personally think the only way to fix this is to make the punishments more severe. I like what tomahawk did. And to make the punishment MUCH more severe. Perhaps if you're sentenced to death by the courts you can't be brought back to life.

-K9

 

[Rextoret]

I personally think the only way to fix this is to make the punishments more severe. I like what tomahawk did. And to make the punishment MUCH more severe. Perhaps if you're sentenced to death by the courts you can't be brought back to life.

-K9

As I said earlier, any form of perma-death is likely to piss off a boatload of people. Pissed off people = People leaving the server. (I'd vouch for perma-death, but it seems impractical in this situation.)

 

[Spark]

As I said earlier, any form of perma-death is likely to piss off a boatload of people. Pissed off people = People leaving the server.

If they like the server they won't leave, if they do stupid things with their character it's all them and not the server's fault.

 

[Spark]

I think the only fair way of doing it would be to set up some sort of ranking system where you would gain reputation and power by fulfilling certain roles. Roles that should already have power in the first place could be given it by commands, such as the Church and the Silvercloaks, but it still leaves the other organisations room to challenge this.

How viable it is in say a plugin or whatever I have no clue, and whether it works as intended is also another question entirely, i'm just trying to spew ideas.

Perhaps some kind of metaphorical leaderboard? Staff or team controlled who give non-bias opinions on an organisation based on their activities?