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Weapon Divisions

Gaby

Gaby

Lord of Altera
angryboy said:
but to be wandering around the local market looking like you're expecting a full-scale war in the next 5 minutes? Yeah, people are going to freak out because it looks like you're prepared for war.
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lets start freaking out in rp every time someone goes to the Crossroads in Plate Armor, carrying 3 swords

rp consequences maaaan
 
Darko

Darko

Lord of Altera
I completely agree with this Legion. Too many times have our attempts to carry out a mission been thwarted because we carry lighter, more reasonable weapons against people carrying plate and a shield and bastard sword. If this could actually be enforced, I think it would greatly enhance the servers quality of role play.
 
The Courier

The Courier

Lord of Altera
Patrickdxs said:
I was informing everyone I know who uses high teir weapons and armor, no bias besides the fact that they carry tiered weapons and armor.
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I've RP'd training long enough with Landir for him to comfortably carry his claymore and broadsword around. Plate armor was never said to be comfortable but considering how violent Altera is and how many deaths can come from a mere joke at the Crossroads..

Sorry mate, little to no reason for me to ICly stop wearing my armor.
 
Patrickdxs

Patrickdxs

Lord of Altera
The Courier said:
I've RP'd training long enough with Landir for him to comfortably carry his claymore and broadsword around. Plate armor was never said to be comfortable but considering how violent Altera is and how many deaths can come from a mere joke at the Crossroads..

Sorry mate, little to no reason for me to ICly stop wearing my armor.
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I'm not asking you to, I just wanted to raise awareness for this.
 
Michcat

Michcat

i'm the wench if you're the cake ;)
DraconDarknight said:
Its even not difficult without training because the weight is distributed around your body. In fact its a lot more difficult to move with a modern day army pack (Full eqip) which does not only weight almost double as much but also has less weight distribution (I can assure you that the full pack was a hassle we had to carry it a few time during conscription + Weapon and helmet of course)
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We've already gone over this in another thread, Dracon. All factors were hashed out and eventually settled.

Swimming + Medieval Knights Plate = NO. This is the final ruling. Please stop telling people they can- If they do ingame and someone calls powergaming, they will be banned for powergaming.


Edit: Start here. Scroll down. Swimming in plate armour is effectively debunked using YOUR OWN EVIDENCE.
http://hollowworld.co.uk/threads/a-point-on-wearing-plate-armor.29159/page-7#post-476257
 
Michcat

Michcat

i'm the wench if you're the cake ;)
angryboy said:
Possible or not, the vast majority of the player base (And by that I mean all but maybe one or two) are opposed to the idea of swimming in plate armour.
So again, possible or not in the real world, the general consensus appears to be "It is not possible in Hollowworld".

Might want to make this an official rule, Mich? Since clearly its possibility is still up for debate...
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Its not a "rule" persay, but it should not longer be up for any sort of debate.
 
Michcat

Michcat

i'm the wench if you're the cake ;)
angryboy said:
That's what I'm saying, push to make it a hardrule so debate doesn't come up again. Possible or not, its already been debated to hell and come up as being too difficult to be practical.
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I don't see the need for any more 'hard rules'. I trust that folks trying to push the point of plate-armour being swimmable will understand that this is not so when they read these posts and no longer push that point, and it can be further introduced in a practical, natural manner.

other folks may think differently, but thats my call.
 
DraconDarknight

DraconDarknight

Lord of Altera
DraconDarknight
DraconDarknight
Michcat said:
We've already gone over this in another thread, Dracon. All factors were hashed out and eventually settled.

Swimming + Medieval Knights Plate = NO. This is the final ruling. Please stop telling people they can- If they do ingame and someone calls powergaming, they will be banned for powergaming.


Edit: Start here. Scroll down. Swimming in plate armour is effectively debunked using YOUR OWN EVIDENCE.
http://hollowworld.co.uk/threads/a-point-on-wearing-plate-armor.29159/page-7#post-476257
Click to expand...

Your ruling accepted but aside for a moment since I feel that that there are several misunderstandings in your last post.

First of all, the post you quoted was referring to general mobility(thus walking, jogging,mounting, standing up), and is entirely disconnected to any sort of water movement, be it walking through the river bed, swimming, paddling, or sinking.

Jstar and I debated earlier whether you could PADDLE, which is as you said yourself not the same as swimming, from one river/stream (whatever word you prefer - see further down) end to another. Feel free to check my posts in this thread - you will see that I never wrote that you can swim in plate armor in this thread(To be precise I even said you cant in my first post)

The only instance where I actually said that one CAN swim was this, and even that didn't say you can swim in plate armor:

'Also not all rivers actually have strong enough currents to even stop you from normal swimming without plate. I aagree that it isnt adv"
Which I btw hastily wrote on my phone which is why half the sentence is missing, its also easy to guess that the adv was meant to be 'advisable'

So yeah kinda more about the strength of river currents than actually water-moving with plate.

What I did however say is that the missing bouyance would play in your favor against currents (and again I still didn't say swim) since its harder to wash heavier objects away than lighter ones.

Michcat said:
Furthermore, wading across a small stream or creek or what-have-you doesn't really require one "swims". I'm talking about full on, open ocean "swim or drown".
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Which is nothing different from what I was talking about in here in the first place. Again at least I was not talking about 'swimming' here.

The other thing I want to note is that there are no definitions of generic words such as stream or river.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River --> First paragraph

There was neither any indication about the river we talked about being 1 meter wide, 10 meters or even 100. The closest to any river width that was mentioned was me saying that the thing haven's bridge divides is more like a canal than a river already.
 
Baron

Baron

Sovereign
Retired Staff
I think the reason you can't swim in full plate armour isn't a mobility issue but a steel is really heavy issue. If you fall over in water, you're done. If you get into water deeper than your head, you're over. Currents regardless.
 
Naelwyn

Naelwyn

Non sum qualis eram
Legion has specifically debunked this for me for all time by actually going out and testing swimming like this just to put this to bed.

Swimming in any capacity in plate = no.
 
Legion

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
Naelwyn said:
Legion has specifically debunked this for me for all time by actually going out and testing swimming like this just to put this to bed.

Swimming in any capacity in plate = no.
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All righty I guess Ill post experiment details here then

A friend of mine is a dental hygienist (as well as one of the weirdest people ever). Over his time working he has collected (through what means I do not know) about a dozen of the lead-apron things used for Xraying. When plate armor swimming first came up, I was curious in an academic sense and I contacted him and we got working. We used about 5 aprons of different sections (about 5. It was hard to tell. He did the cutting/stitching/taping/assembly himself) and fashioned a piece that covered my torso, my legs to about mid-thigh, and my shoulders. My legs and arms were entirely unencumbered. The whole thing weighed about 25 pounds.

Now most of you probably don't know this but I am a swimmer. Its how I do my workouts. I swim everyday for an hour. Im not exactly athletic, but I felt that my skill in swimming in particular would account for the increased general athleticism a knight might have.

So I strapped the thing to me hopped in the pool and tried to swim.
First thing I tried was butterfly stroke. Butterfly impossible at any speed under any circumstance.
Next was back stroke. Similarly, back stroke impossible at any speed.
Next I tried free style. Freestyle possible, but problematic and scary as balls. The faster you go freestyling the easier it is to remain afloat, but I reached 100m sprint levels of exhaustion after about 13m. Furthermore, while doing freestyle I noticed consistently that my hips wanted to drop farther than my chest, making kicking difficult.
Next I did breast stroke. This was the easiest of the ones tried so far (but still damn hard). Breast stroke is already a slow stroke, and with the extra weight the vast majority of effort is put into staying above the water rather than going forward. I could consistently maintain above the level of the water but it took me 4.5 minutes to go 25m (for reference, I could normally do this in about 15 seconds.). At the end of this I was too tired to continue. However I strongly suspect that plate armor, while perhaps not horrifically encumbering on land for walking and running based tasks, would in the water make the leg motion for breast stroke all but impossible.
Lastly, I tried a non-conventional stroke which I created myself which I use when scuba diving. Conventional swimming strokes dont apply all that well with a tank strapped to your back.
This one was the most successful in terms of speed and safety, but it was the most exhausting.

The conclusion I gathered: this was with 25 pounds, literally no encumbering factors, and nothing but the (waterproof) lead apron apparatus. Increase the weight to 40 or 50 pounds, encumber the legs arms and head/neck, and any sort of cloth garment underneath and you are practically guaranteed a nice quick drown if the water goes above your head. The importance of the helmet should not be understated. Swimming with a device on your head is scary at best and horrifically debilitating at worst. A plate armor helmet is just about the worst thing I can imagine having on my head while swimming, right behind "live beehive." A particularly athletic man I suspect could, for a short while, maintain his position above the surface of the water. I do not believe anyone is realistically capable of swimming any significant distance at any respectable speed for any usable amount of time.
 
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