A point on wearing plate armor

[MRPolo13]

As far as roads are concerned, continuing on the communication bit, they pretty much never existed. I made that point before, that aside from the royal tracts there were maybe some dirt paths and those would often turn into right swamps during spring.

 

[Mad Hatter]

As far as roads are concerned, continuing on the communication bit, they pretty much never existed. I made that point before, that aside from the royal tracts there were maybe some dirt paths and those would often turn into right swamps during spring.

That's a point I personally often forget, there was a hell of a lot more rugged landscape back then. Almost no major roads, certainly nothing smooth and straight, as well as a damn sight more trees, scrub and bramble. It would have been a rough and unpredictable journey going anywhere further than 100km from home. I imagine most people did not have any access to reliable maps which would have made navigation even more complicated. One would have to know and follow landmarks for the bulk of travelling to farther away places. Also like you said, different seasons would create different routes, especially in low laying areas or near waterways. Come to think of it, the waterways were likely the most common travel markers that people would use, aside from landscape variables and man made structures and developments.

I am feeling a richer immersion in the timeframe with following this thread. Thank you for taking the time share this information that powers this train of thought.

 

[thatguy090]

dont forget warpicks, although generally unweildly, they can penetrate armor quite well, although one drawback would be that it would get stuck in the armor after use(if it hits the body underneath it could impede them imensely)

 

[MRPolo13]

dont forget warpicks, although generally unweildly, they can penetrate armor quite well, although one drawback would be that it would get stuck in the armor after use(if it hits the body underneath it could impede them imensely)

The reason why warpicks aren't mentioned is the fact that they tend to be very similar to war hammer, it's just that the focus is slightly different. And meh, they could get stuck, but they wouldn't always.

 

[Camernater3]

If you watch all the parts of the original video from that video I posted they bring out maces, warpicks, war hammers, etc. even a giant spear with a massive tip that can't be cut off easily without a saw/ax and enough time

 

[Angryboy]

If you watch all the parts of the original video from that video I posted they bring out maces, warpicks, war hammers, etc. even a giant spear with a massive tip that can't be cut off easily without a saw/ax and enough time

There are more videos to this? Because in that one, they only go into two weapons in detail; the Falchion and the Estoc, neither of which were effective. Also, I don't know of any spears that were fully metal, I imagine that would have been quite expensive due to the length of metal needed as well as heavy due to it being fully made of metal. *shrugs*

 

[Valonyx]

Engem are the biggest Kuul industrial power on Altera

Wat? aren't you wasting your time on shamanism and tree-loving? I might have a slight misconception of Engems on that...
Besides, you got that industrial resolve from mommy Arcturus... ^-^

 

[MRPolo13]

Wat? aren't you wasting your time on shamanism and tree-loving? I might have a slight misconception of Engems on that...
Besides, you got that industrial resolve from mommy Arcturus... ^-^

Yes, Arcturus was a woman. ;D

 

[Gregor]

Yes, Arcturus was a woman. ;D

 

[Angryboy]

Yes, Arcturus was a woman. ;D

Arcturus was based on old Empires and such, from the age of Imperialism. The only nation I can think of that has ever called itself a masculine name was Germany, aka the Fatherland. Everything else is feminine; Mother Russia, Britain, France I think was one too.

 

[Valonyx]

Yes, Arcturus was a woman. ;D

The Lioness of the South - Strength and Elegance, the mother of conquerors ^-^

 

[Exclaimer]

[Insert obligatory "women rule the world" type phrase here]

 

[Camernater3]

There are more videos to this? Because in that one, they only go into two weapons in detail; the Falchion and the Estoc, neither of which were effective. Also, I don't know of any spears that were fully metal, I imagine that would have been quite expensive due to the length of metal needed as well as heavy due to it being fully made of metal. *shrugs*

Not the WHOLE thing, the tip is realllllly long and to thick to bend easily and yes it was expensive and yes it is heavy

 

[Sankera]

[Insert obligatory "women rule the world" type phrase here]

Rerail

 

[Angryboy]

Not the WHOLE thing, the tip is realllllly long and to thick to bend easily and yes it was expensive and yes it is heavy

Dude, how long are we going to keep arguing this point? Nothing that we would have access to in this timeframe would have the ability to pierce plate armour deep enough to be of use in a combat situation.

I doubt you've studied physics at a high enough level to understand the vast amount of different properties that materials have, but I tell you now there is a lot more to things breaking than just its "thickness"... and if you're trying to thrust a long, thin and brittle object (like a spear) at something like a piece of armour, its likely to break. Maybe the metal tip won't break, but the wooden hilt will, making it just as useless as if the tip had broken instead.

 

[Gaby]

found this link

http://perplexingly.tumblr.com/post/77585672887/theres-always-space-for-yet-another-armor

all the components of plate armor, layer by layer.

as you can see, it was so complicated.

 

[MRPolo13]

found this link

http://perplexingly.tumblr.com/post/77585672887/theres-always-space-for-yet-another-armor

all the components of plate armor, layer by layer.

as you can see, it was so complicated.

It wasn't that complicated. As long as you had someone else to put it on you that is

But a very nice tutorial thing.

 

[Gregor]

There is a lot of things unclear about if bows can pierce through plate.

Adding some empirical data by Alan Williams. He studied armour more than anyone else and produced a book of almost 1000 pages about it. (The Knight and the Blast Furnace)

Lets take a look at the data. I will take it straight from the conclusion. The necessary kinetic energy (in joules) needed to defeat armour setups (Cause penetration past the armour of 40 MM actual penetration into flesh is excluded) These tests are done using the pyrimidial bodkin point.

Knight (C13) in mail and padding: 120 J.
Knight (C13) in mail, padding, and 2 mm coat of iron plates: 220 J.
Knight (C15 with Milanese armour) curved plate of 2 mm, medium-carbon, air-cooled, striking angle of 30°, no padding: 230 J.
Landsknecht/Swiss Pikeman (C16 Nürnberg infantry armour) keeled armour, 2.5 mm, at 45°, no padding: 260 J.

How much force does an arrow have? Williams cites quite low values (The tested longbow was quite weak with only 80lbs draw weight)

The normal english warbow suggests an average draw weight of 140lbs, A bow like that would generate around 120 J at point blank

The average English longbow generated kinetic energy of 120 Joules which is just enough to penetrate the armour of a knight who is wearing nothing but chain mail and padding. 50-100 Joules more would be needed to cause enough tissue damage to incapacitate him!

How about crossbows? Taken the measurements of Payne-Gallwey one can arrive at 140 J for a heavy siege crossbow of 1200lbs. As you can see, plate armor is more than sufficient.

But, this is tested against the strongest part of the armour, arrows can still be deadly by hitting weak points, or damage joints and immobilize people in armour.

And before you recite armour test videos:

A lot of armour testing videos neglect quite some factors. For one it is stationary armour with nothing inside, usually a mere 1 MM and without a gambeson, together with the fact that most modern repro armour is mild steel - period armours were generally hardened; this makes a pretty significant difference to penetration.

 

[DraconDarknight]

snip

See the video in the other thread

But yeah I also saw very different videos regarding that too.
Usually the Crossbows can barley pierce the armor while I saw a video of war bows (probably bodkin arrows) that pierced right through it. (To a point where chain mail or a thick leather jacket below it would suffice to protect you)
I assume the arrows and bows were both made with modern day materials though.

Edit:

 

[BarbarianGaming]

From what I saw the bolts pierced but weren't close to even getting to the person underneath.
EDIT: And not to mention that armour has looked like it's seen better days.