More on OOC Issues

[DraconDarknight]

I threw it at his back

Completely true. But im still unsure of how to icly respond to it, nor will I reveal it if I do.

Which isn't much better as it could cause paralysis if it hit the spine in a bad way.
Objects are generally more dangerous if you put velocity on them.

A bullet isn't that dangerous either until you add the velocity from the explosion generated inside the gun.

 

[Gaby]

I feel that was unnecessarily harsh. And so far, I haven't seen him argue at all.

I had already told him I did not want to discuss the Heart Prophecy. that it was off-topic and irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
it also felt like he was derailing and undermining my point when he brought it up. as though to say the Law of Red was hypocritical, I know nothing on violence in medieval times, and thus I shouldn't be talking.

I get that he might mean well, but I kind of lost my patience, and I can't tell if the tone by which he was addressing me was subtly condescending or not.
his posts bothered me on a level I can't articulate, and what with the whole Senatoor thing that I'm probably going to have to debate about, I'm a /bit/ defensive and bristly right now.

sorry.

 

[Spark]

We don't need a main governing power, this will just cause even more IC and probably OOC issues. If each house has it's own land, which it does, it should enforce the law in their own land. If a house becomes tyrannical, then the other houses should find a way to sort them out. Y'know, add some politics. Clearly most of these crimes are happening in towns and cities, so why aren't the laws of these areas being enforced?

 

[Gaby]

We don't need a main governing power, this will just cause even more IC and probably OOC issues. If each house has it's own land, which it does, it should enforce the law in their own land. If a house becomes tyrannical, then the other houses should find a way to sort them out. Y'know, add some politics. Clearly most of these crimes are happening in towns and cities, so why aren't the laws of these areas being enforced?

the towns are starting to get serious about their laws (or at least Marr and Engem are, as far as I've noticed), so thats a start!
big problem is the border-hopping that criminals are starting to do now. just run 'cross the border, escape all consequences. yeehaw.

(and the disturbing trend of people sympathizing with killers ic and ooc? its reminding me of hybristophilia and the disturbing trend of making out people like school shooters to be good guys? it's /really/ creepy???)

 

[Tybalt]

Which isn't much better as it could cause paralysis if it hit the spine in a bad way.
Objects are generally more dangerous if you put velocity on them.

A bullet isn't that dangerous either until you add the velocity from the explosion generated inside the gun.

I didn't reel back and baseball throw it....like he would let his character die from that. It was an insulting thing and payback for not cleaning his mess of smashed bottles in the tavern, also was only to test them.

No reason to kill over it

 

[Megadonkey30]

We don't need a main governing power, this will just cause even more IC and probably OOC issues. If each house has it's own land, which it does, it should enforce the law in their own land. If a house becomes tyrannical, then the other houses should find a way to sort them out. Y'know, add some politics. Clearly most of these crimes are happening in towns and cities, so why aren't the laws of these areas being enforced?

Let roleplay be roleplay. For now we do not have a crown system, but who knows, times change.

 

[Spark]

the towns are starting to get serious about their laws (or at least Marr and Engem are, as far as I've noticed), so thats a start!
big problem is the border-hopping that criminals are starting to do now. just run 'cross the border, escape all consequences. yeehaw.

(and the disturbing trend of people sympathizing with killers ic and ooc? its reminding me of hybristophilia and the disturbing trend of making out people like school shooters to be good guys? it's /really/ creepy???)

Border hopping? That's where communication between leaders should come in. If a criminal in Hierax land crossed the border into Lonmar controlled lands, it would make sense for Hierax to contact Lonmar, would it not?
Also, there's nothing wrong with people sympathising with murderous character OOC. People can have any feelings they want towards someone's character, but they shouldn't have negative feelings towards the the player. I think relating it to school shootings is slightly.... melodramatic.

 

[Exclaimer]

(and the disturbing trend of people sympathizing with killers ic and ooc? its reminding me of hybristophilia and the disturbing trend of making out people like school shooters to be good guys? it's /really/ creepy???)

... Thank you. So much.

 

[Gaby]

Also, there's nothing wrong with people sympathising with murderous character OOC. People can have any feelings they want towards someone's character, but they shouldn't have negative feelings towards the the player. I think relating it to school shootings is slightly.... melodramatic.

I meant sympathizing with a characters actions. not the player behind them.

 

[Spark]

I meant sympathizing with a characters actions. not the player behind them.

That's what I meant too, well I was covering both. I personally love sadistic, "evil" characters. However I wouldn't say I share the same view on real people with those qualities.

 

[Legion]

well since you insist...

1. there's only two lines in the prophecy that refer to violence, "each will destroy the other, if they can", and "for when they clash, only one will leave". the latter has two interpretations, and one is non-violent.
2. Sallana is not associated with fighting or violence in any way, shape, or form. she's the goddess of love. the concept of her going to literal, swords-and-shields, actual war with anyone is plainly ridiculous
3. Vermella's whole code involves not striking first. while she (unlike Sallana) is a warrior, she's not going to tell her followers to go spill Sallana follower blood utterly unprovoked.
4. most of Vermella's followers are pacifists? most of Sallana's followers don't bother carrying weapons?

as @Moochick so kindly pointed out to me, it's highly likely this "religious war" is not going to be played out conventionally. as in, killing people conventionally.


and for the record? I quite frankly do not care about "historical accuracy" regarding cruel and unusual violence in medieval fantasy. there are literally infinitely better ways to properly portray the culture of the times than immediately jumping to all the terrible things that happened.

and with regards to this server specifically, we're already in the realm of science fiction. or did everyone forget that glowstone is an advanced piece of technology from a ruined, post-apocalyptic earth, and that the Crossroads inn is using it to light their main hall? did everyone collectively forget that Queen Grief was the guardian of the aforementioned post-apocalyptic earth? did everyone forget that we were literally hopping universes to evade the corruption at one point (or three)?
there's only one reason Alterans don't have spaceships by now, and thats because the grand architects of Altera left copper out of the equation, forcing the inhabitants to only be able to advance their knowledge of technology so far. we have a robot, and we have a barbarian tribe spouting progressive modern ideals. we literally have a god whose whole thing is fighting tyranny.
if you're going to argue about someone trying to tone down the violence because it's not "historically accurate" then I don't know what to tell you.

Gaby your enthusiasm is clear and your participation is greatly appreciated but I think you need to chill out a little bit.
This post, and the earlier one with the spoiler containing a message in all caps? Its too far. It is difficult to maintain the discussion with these sorts of things going on. Thank you.

Secondly, I have a rather large post that will address a large number of points but it is important enough that I need to proof read and reword. This will come in the next hours.

 

[Michcat]

All i'm going to say is...:

Senatoor are being hard to deal with, they are bringing this on themselves and the staff and players are getting tired of all this.

What I need from you all is a candid and civil discussion of possible solutions to this problem that have not already been attempted by staff. We also need to develop clear consequences to perpetuating these sorts of conflicts.

To that end, if anyone is having difficulty keeping their tempers in check while having this discussion, I will happily provide them with a 24 hour vacation from the forums via a temporary IP ban. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, but I want to make clear to you guys how serious I am.

I'm not going to get into the reasons the arguments are happening but no it's not that they're trying to be "good guys" and then we're just putting them down. It's happening because of recent things that we're just not happy about.

What I need from you all is a candid and civil discussion of possible solutions to this problem that have not already been attempted by staff. We also need to develop clear consequences to perpetuating these sorts of conflicts. I will be satisfied to allow this discussion to go on for a week or more, if necessary, as long as progress is made, and people are being courteous. But we need to come to some sort of decision that staff can use going forward. Or we will have to start using sterner methods.

I'd like to suggest a system that goes with this post. Something that /discourages/ killing other characters, or even acting violent... Perhaps enforcing the realistic emotional and mental strains and consequences that would happen from killing a person? Or simply put more scrutiny on violent characters as a whole? Really, something /needs/ to be done about the state of hyper violence on the server.

There has been, before the staff rework, a potential plan for the Sisterhood to no longer revive murderers. We've been on the fence about it for a long time due to technicalities.

Moving on to Page Two...

 

[Michcat]

Nice to see everyone has come together as a community, to then gang up on a select group. Nice guys, real nice. Why don't you just drop the OOC hate, and stop getting so worked up about it. To be honest, I can't see what the "Senatoors" have done wrong in this situation (OOC). The only thing I see is people constantly ripping into them.

Violence will always be on the server unless it is ruled out. People clearly enjoy that type of RP otherwise it wouldn't happen. There are already measures in place to allow people to have non-violent regions.

I'm not asking you guys to like each other. It would be nice, but that's not up to me. I am asking that you help keep this server a fun place for others to RP. To that end, if anyone is having difficulty keeping their tempers in check while having this discussion, I will happily provide them with a 24 hour vacation from the forums via a temporary IP ban. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, but I want to make clear to you guys how serious I am.

When people's characters start getting policed, even if they're hyper violent, people (including myself) get upset over the OOC decision made to do so. People's characters are their own, with their own reasons for killing. Sure, if evidence points towards them ICly, then prosecution is natural - but if it's all OOC based, it's nonsensical and I do not support it. People fight, people war, it's natural - and seeing as though my aging soldier has plans that basically revolve around just that coming up very very soon, it would be incredibly detrimental to him IC if other people were not allowed to play characters who like to fight / have to fight / know how to fight.

TL;DR: Policing characters OOCly (unless they break inappropriate conduct rules) is very bad.

I have taken what you said into consideration, but I would really like to hear what solutions you have to propose instead of policing violent characters, I think we can start up a good conversation about how to improve these issues, if they are related to violent RP.


This is exactly the discussion I was hoping to bring about with my post, apologizes for making it seem like I just wanted to police violent RP in every form.

Thank you, both of you, for this scrap of discussion

Heh, I miss when things actually had repercussions.

Back with the Crown, people couldn't just kill someone and get away with it as easily as they could now. When that system was dissolved, everything shattered and went back to the old "wild west" style of play. I honestly see no real solution to the violence, as that's always going to exist in a medieval environment. I personally found that the Crown system did well in addressing a lot of issues, but it's a bit too far to re-instate that.

Adding a system to monitor the mental backlash of killing someone is probably not a great idea and likely would be a waste of time. The better solution would be for staff to just monitor powergaming and be a bit more harsh in those punishments in order to discourage bad roleplay.

It was expressed by the community that the crown felt too stifling. They're free to do what they wish now, by note: Make their own crowns

I threw it at his back

Completely true. But im still unsure of how to icly respond to it, nor will I reveal it if I do.

Can we rerail to the issue at hand instead of the Senatoor vs Marr situation? Specific incidents are less important than the whole shebang.

Personally, I feel that just educating players on more proper rp and how they'd realistically handle trauma would go a long way. I can have a thread up about this in a few hours when I get off work, but one thread won't go as far as everyone mutually cooperating on this stuff. If people were given constructive criticism when others do something dumb which escalates a situation instead of the rp erupting into a flame war this problem would be dead and gone inside of two weeks.

And there is a difference between constructive criticism and being an ass, guys. Keep it friendly OOC and the rest will follow. You're all playing the same game together.

Onto page Three...

 

[Michcat]

Which isn't much better as it could cause paralysis if it hit the spine in a bad way.
Objects are generally more dangerous if you put velocity on them.

A bullet isn't that dangerous either until you add the velocity from the explosion generated inside the gun.

What I need from you all is a candid and civil discussion of possible solutions to this problem that have not already been attempted by staff. We also need to develop clear consequences to perpetuating these sorts of conflicts. I will be satisfied to allow this discussion to go on for a week or more, if necessary, as long as progress is made, and people are being courteous. But we need to come to some sort of decision that staff can use going forward. Or we will have to start using sterner methods.

Lets try and keep this productive, everyone

 

[Spark]

My quote and Som's quote

Slightly confused.... are you offering me a 24 hour vacation?..

 

[Scardrac]

Scardrac and his order go around and speak with the owners of towns and ask if they can enforce the law of their town. While it is the decision of the owner, the terms basically mean that the person gets more crime-fighting people to.. well, fight crime.

If there is a tyrannical bunch? Our commandments state we don't have to listen to tyrannical and sinister law, and we try and correct it. ^^

 

[Michcat]

Slightly confused.... are you offering me a 24 hour vacation?..

Not at all? I'd like the request of the thread maker to be kept in mind, however. Calling other people out in an antagonistic manner is not contributive to a respectful discussion

Perhaps a better way to get that excellent point across would be to simply mention that you don't appreciate how it looks like people are ganging up on the Senatoor, or something similarly civil.

 

[Spark]

Not at all? I'd like the request of the thread maker to be kept in mind, however. Calling other people out in an antagonistic manner is not contributive to a respectful discussion

Perhaps a better way to get that excellent point across would be to simply mention that you don't appreciate how it looks like people are ganging up on the Senatoor, or something similarly civil.

I understand. Reading back I see how it could easily be perceived as antagonistic, sadly I didn't put too much thought into that at the time and civility is not my suit at the best of times. Thanks for clearing that up, I'll pay more attention to what I'm writing in the future

 

[DraconDarknight]

Lets try and keep this productive, everyone

What I wanted to say with it is :
Drawing a sword against someone who throws a bottle at you isn't as in-understandable as the ones the swords were drawn against say it is.

 

[Gaby]

Gaby your enthusiasm is clear and your participation is greatly appreciated but I think you need to chill out a little bit.

I put the caps rant in spoilers because.
because I did not want drama. I'd be happy to delete it, especially before acu or verfumbo find it because that would be pain.
it just feels like I said my thing and it turned into a frenzy and then I started getting fed up with everyone really quickly.
those two angry posts u mentioned happened to be me getting upset at something someone else said that was honestly a derail from my original point. so I kinda snapped at them and got all defensive cause it was getting too antagonistic in this thread honestly.
there was also irl drama at the time, as I was trying to meet a deadline. which might have contributed.

so yeah im sorry.

EDIT: the offending text has been removed, in their place is an explanation why.
now I think it's time for me to do some nice, peaceful roleplaying and back away from this for a while.