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NationStates

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
You can revive your old one yo
I have done that, what I meant was I dont like it because the "Issues" seem to be the only way to effect policy but on each given issue you get between 3 and 5 choice none of which are ever one I exactly like.

Also its model has some seriously contradictory things. Like my old country had an economy rated in the highest category possible.
As well as ranking in the top 10% of stupidest citizens.
These things do not go together.
The model simply assumes that if you, the government, dont provide education you end up with stupid citizens.
 

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
Interestingly, my political ideology makes it impossible to play this game correctly.
Because the only way to do so would be to stop playing...
 

Baron

Sovereign
Retired Staff
I have done that, what I meant was I dont like it because the "Issues" seem to be the only way to effect policy but on each given issue you get between 3 and 5 choice none of which are ever one I exactly like.

Also its model has some seriously contradictory things. Like my old country had an economy rated in the highest category possible.
As well as ranking in the top 10% of stupidest citizens.
These things do not go together.
The model simply assumes that if you, the government, dont provide education you end up with stupid citizens.
To be fair in every existing model if the government isn't spending on education, citizens tend to not be very bright regardless of actual intellect. You get bad schools without supplies and underfunded teachers in overcrowded classrooms.
 

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
Well, not in every existing model, by a longshot, but thats a different debate (which Id love to have, just not here).
But what Im mainly talking about is stuff like this:
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=5s
He has top 5% in the world for scientific advancement
A frighteningly strong economy
and top 1% for dumbest citizens.
Problem.
 

Gaby

Lord of Altera
Well, not in every existing model, by a longshot, but thats a different debate (which Id love to have, just not here).
But what Im mainly talking about is stuff like this:
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=5s
He has top 5% in the world for scientific advancement
A frighteningly strong economy
and top 1% for dumbest citizens.
Problem.
  • 2 days 6 hours ago: Following new legislation in 5S, businesses are scrambling to adapt to the government's mandate that 'time and measurement no longer exist'.
  • 2 days 18 hours ago: Following new legislation in 5S, a chain of pubs that cater solely to children has recently been unveiled.
  • 2 days 18 hours ago: Following new legislation in 5S, tourists outnumber citizens two to one.
  • 2 days 18 hours ago: Following new legislation in 5S, skateboarding is the only legal way to travel.
  • 5 days ago: Following new legislation in 5S, the booming slave trade is now government-funded
  • 5 days ago: Following new legislation in 5S, crowds of flag-burning protesters tend to accidentally become crowds of burning protesters.
you know, Legion,

I really don't think a minor contradiction that can be easily handwaved is the biggest issue that country has.
 

Ray1333

Lord of Altera
Well, not in every existing model, by a longshot, but thats a different debate (which Id love to have, just not here).
But what Im mainly talking about is stuff like this:
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=5s
He has top 5% in the world for scientific advancement
A frighteningly strong economy
and top 1% for dumbest citizens.
Problem.
Perhaps a large separation between a rich, well educated upper class and large, poor, uneducated lower class?
 

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
you know, Legion,

I really don't think a minor contradiction that can be easily handwaved is the biggest issue that country has.
I made no statements about whether they are running their simulation well, but ironically youve helped support my point- you dont have a "frightening" economy when you have those sorts of things happening.
 

Gaby

Lord of Altera
I made no statements about whether they are running their simulation well, but ironically youve helped support my point- you dont have a "frightening" economy when you have those sorts of things happening.
Holy Strawman Fallacy, batman,

about whether they are running their simulation well
that wasn't my point at all!
my point is, this is a lighthearted political simulator. no simulator could ever hope to completely realistically portray the complex and unpredictable morass that is politics, except maybe one designed by a computer so advanced it's self-aware. even then, I don't think anyone or anything in this world could ever predict what a human will do next.

you can't honestly expect a political novelist to create a realistic portrayal of the risks of running a country in his spare time. you can't even expect a dedicated team of moderators and administrators to do so.
they know full well what their limits are on realism, so they've opted to ignore realism in favor of humor and fun. my little thing was to point out something important.

nearly everything here is exaggerated to humorous lengths. this is all an elaborate joke. the analysis categories are all made up at the drop of a hat. nobody can numerically rate the toxicity or eco-friendliness of an entire nation, and they certainly wouldn't do so in a "Kardashian Reflex Score" or "Dolphin Recycling Awareness Index."

None of this is even remotely close to realistic.
Nobody enters this expecting a realistic simulation.


now, maybe you like your games to be realistic. that's fine. and I apologize if any part of this post could be seen as rude or combative, as that is most certainly not my intent. I am only trying to clear things up.
 

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
Holy Strawman Fallacy, batman,


that wasn't my point at all!
my point is, this is a lighthearted political simulator. no simulator could ever hope to completely realistically portray the complex and unpredictable morass that is politics, except maybe one designed by a computer so advanced it's self-aware. even then, I don't think anyone or anything in this world could ever predict what a human will do next.

you can't honestly expect a political novelist to create a realistic portrayal of the risks of running a country in his spare time. you can't even expect a dedicated team of moderators and administrators to do so.
they know full well what their limits are on realism, so they've opted to ignore realism in favor of humor and fun. my little thing was to point out something important.

nearly everything here is exaggerated to humorous lengths. this is all an elaborate joke. the analysis categories are all made up at the drop of a hat. nobody can numerically rate the toxicity or eco-friendliness of an entire nation, and they certainly wouldn't do so in a "Kardashian Reflex Score" or "Dolphin Recycling Awareness Index."
None of this is even remotely close to realistic.
Nobody enters this expecting a realistic simulation.


now, maybe you like your games to be realistic. that's fine. and I apologize if any part of this post could be seen as rude or combative, as that is most certainly not my intent. I am only trying to clear things up.
Oh trust me I know its not meant to be entirely realistic because it couldnt be, you're entirely right it would be impossible to simulate realistically. However, based on reading the "About" and FAQ when I first joined up with nationstates a year and a half ago, and based on the questions it asks when you start, and based on the rigor of parliamentary procedure required for resolution writing in the WA, it absolutely seems to be a simulator that, while it has no illusions of perfection, does strive for realism. As such it is perfectly legitimate to criticize aspects that I feel are obviously wrong. Certain non-quantifiable things absolutely make sense to make something up for, and Im all for humor in these. When I read the one about the flag burning protesters, I laughed so hard my mouth hurt. But many of the economic relationships are much more well defined.

Holy Strawman Fallacy, batman,
Based on this I can see you're still upset. I admire the parallelism. But Strawman really doesnt apply here. A strawman argument would be if I were to deliberately misrepresent or caricature your (or another's) position in order to make it seem ridiculous and thus the task of presenting evidence against it easier.
I dont see how thats happened here at all. I might have gotten what you were saying incorrect, but that just means I missed your point or wasnt responding directly to you. This is a forum after all, and the majority of my posts are not strictly responses but also statements.
 

Baron

Sovereign
Retired Staff
The WA is an RP as far as I can tell and doesn't actually mean anything unless you want it to.
 

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
The WA is an RP as far as I can tell and doesn't actually mean anything unless you want it to.
Correct, I was referring to how parli pro (any Model UNers here?) was used to set the resolution format to the same (or a similar, I believe its slightly modified) as used by the UN. Its a pain in the arse to use and is by no means efficient so youd not use it except for realism.
 

Gaby

Lord of Altera
Based on this I can see you're still upset. I admire the parallelism. But Strawman really doesnt apply here. A strawman argument would be if I were to deliberately misrepresent or caricature your (or another's) position in order to make it seem ridiculous and thus the task of presenting evidence against it easier.
I dont see how thats happened here at all. I might have gotten what you were saying incorrect, but that just means I missed your point or wasnt responding directly to you. This is a forum after all, and the majority of my posts are not strictly responses but also statements.
to be honest, the only reason I said that was for cheap comeuppance, and I didn't care that it wasn't exactly accurate, because "holy complete misinterpretation, batman!" wasn't snappy enough : P
 

Legion

No Gods, No Masters.
Retired Staff
to be honest, the only reason I said that was for cheap comeuppance, and I didn't care that it wasn't exactly accurate, because "holy complete misinterpretation, batman!" wasn't snappy enough : P
Never lose accuracy for snappiness! The goal is wit, and who cares if wit is biting if its not witty!
 
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