State of Events (Q2 2016)

[dUMMY]

We've always known why - staff want everyone to be involved. It's an admirable goal. We just think they're doing it the wrong way.

Right. So there was just a miscommunication about what to expect from these events. You guys want players to have more personal effect and involvement rather than be waysided by a babysitter npc("mary sue"). And you were under the impression that that was what you were getting.

 

[Rygan]

Right. So there was just a miscommunication about what to expect from these events. You guys want players to have more personal effect and involvement rather than be waysided by a babysitter npc("mary sue"). And you were under the impression that that was what you were getting.

It's been advertised as a player driven campaign that completely depends on your actions and choices, and, well, yeah. That's what I was hoping for.

 

[Smurf]

I think that the gap between staff and player has become a strain on both sides, because communication is not happening in a kind, coherent manner. Players are frustrated because they've been waiting for a year for new lore, and for the server to blossom again, and while I can't speak for staff because I'm not a staff, I'd take a wild guess and say that they are frustrated because they have lives just like us players do. They can't do everything they want; but they have so much to do, and so many of them are too overloaded. But, from a player's perspective, it's really frustrating. Especially when it has to do with a community that you care a lot about. Nobody wants to see it crumble. And, if Hollowworld had it's own cast system, yes, Staff would be on top. And those below them need them to provide consistently, or the system won't work. For the past year and a half this system of angry assaults on staff in threads and the lack of response back or even responses that spark far more anger hasn't worked.

Obviously, this means that something needs to be changed. And players can't make that call; only Staff can. And I do believe that they are trying their damnedest to keep up with the playerbase. But sometimes trying isn't enough, and sometimes things don't work, and you have to reroute, and think; hey, people aren't happy. People are angry, people are sad, and we need to change things. I think that last part just isn't happening. I am very happy that some of the new Magic system came out yesterday; and people seem to be disregarding that. I'd take a guess to say it's because normal players don't have chances to RP as characters with Magic, yet. Who knows if they ever will.

As Cap said, Staff's goals are admirable. But some of them can seem unrealistic, and there obviously aren't enough staff- from inactive staff, to those that are just too overloaded with real-world issues; we consume at far too fast of a rate that Staff can produce, and it's obviously an issue. As far as Events go- obviously, people find it frustrating that 70 people and an NPC 'overlord'- heh, run also by a (sometimes inactive) but completely respectable Staff member have to be involved in something that their characters and even them (OOC) have invested their time in. It sucks. But it's just another issue that needs to be worked out, and isn't being worked out because people don't know how to communicate. And I am one of these people, don't get me wrong; we all shitpost.

It's been advertised as a player driven campaign that completely depends on your actions and choices, and, well, yeah. That's what I was hoping for.

I think Rygan summed up the last part pretty well here after I wrote all of this. Oops.

 

[Elt]

So, had an idea:

How about, to try and better Staff-Player communication a bit, a 'List of Logistical Priorities' thread be put up?

It can be a cooperative task, where players and staff alike can - hopefully without getting snarky or railing on one another - discuss the various and upcoming projects being worked on. It would feature a list (vague enough to not spoil the Aeon campaign while still informing players that, yes, things _are_ happening) of said projects in order of priority. A good idea would be to include the reasoning for their position on the list briefly summarized, as well as the progress towards each project. Additionally, it could also work as a kind of hub for the staff to keep players updated on the state of things.

Just a thought, but I think it's got promise.

 

[NIAH]

So, had an idea:

How about, to try and better Staff-Player communication a bit, a 'List of Logistical Priorities' thread be put up?

It can be a cooperative task, where players and staff alike can - hopefully without getting snarky or railing on one another - discuss the various and upcoming projects being worked on. It would feature a list (vague enough to not spoil the Aeon campaign while still informing players that, yes, things _are_ happening) of said projects in order of priority. A good idea would be to include the reasoning for their position on the list briefly summarized, as well as the progress towards each project. Additionally, it could also work as a kind of hub for the staff to keep players updated on the state of things.

Just a thought, but I think it's got promise.

It has been in planning, and in the Staff Forums for discussion for a month. This debate from yesterday sparked it being pushed through.

Staff Agenda

 

[Elt]

It has been in planning, and in the Staff Forums for discussion for a month. This debate from yesterday sparked it being pushed through.

Staff Agenda

I did mean to ask, though, about the discussion part. The Agenda thread looks great, but maybe a dedicated place to discuss the agenda among players and staff could add to the communication effort?

It just seems like derailing various threads over a few months hosts the most discussion as of late, so it' might be more organized with a specific thread for it.

Again: just a thought.

 

[The Courier]

So, we ever gonna decide on how to deal with the

"Some factions/characters hate others and will try to deal with things on their own instead of bringing the [Rest of the Server] Altera's entire population with them." ?

That seemed to be the major spark of this and it's been effectively shilled and memory hole'd with a transparency argument.

 

[Elt]

So, we ever gonna decide on how to deal with the

"Some factions/characters hate others and will try to deal with things on their own instead of bringing the [Rest of the Server] Altera's entire population with them." ?

That seemed to be the major spark of this and it's been effectively shilled and memory hole'd with a transparency argument.

This-

It's been advertised as a player driven campaign that completely depends on your actions and choices, and, well, yeah. That's what I was hoping for.

And that seems to be the crux of the matter. That, and what makes IC sense, because I sincerely doubt, like, half of the characters searching for Bastion Stones would make their finding it a public thing, let alone its location. Clain, to me, seems like he's supposed to be a someone a lot of characters are unsure of, distrust, or outright loathe.

The chances of some parties telling him of all people? Very, very slim.

Of course, then there's the fact that the dungeons themselves are meant to be public events, because, of course, players should get a chance to get involved. But isn't that the point of the search itself? - so anybody can get in on an adventure to find a Bastion Stone? It just seems like the following part has no IC reason to be public, and the only one I can think of would be a big bad monster that twenty people are needed to kill, or some huge puzzle.

 

[dUMMY]

Sounds like you can't get in without Clain, correct?

 

[Cap]

we don't need clain

we need clain's rock

 

[Smurf]

we don't need clain

we need clain's rock

Which comes in a package with Clain.

 

[dUMMY]

we don't need clain

we need clain's rock

Sounds like you would need to get to Clain first. Which lends itself naturally to the situation in which a Bastion stone being discovered is released as common knowledge.

Look, I understand what you want, and I understand why you thought the way you thought about what was going on with the event. However, despite what some players took away from the way the event was advertised, others, like myself, were not under the same misconceptions about how the Altera Alive events were to be conducted. This misconception does not mean that this campaign section needs to be altered in order to fix the misconception and make it true.

 

[dUMMY]

I empathize with you as much as I can. But to look at an event like the first bastion stone recovery and how much effort went into building the area and everything, and then think that the recovery of the other bastion stones would be private deals is a bit of a disconnect.

 

[Cap]

it's not hard to say 'hey, clain, let's meet! we love god, god is great!'

and then crowbar his legs, mug him, and run off with his rock

 

[TheDeester]

There would be little motivation for characters below absolute selflessness to help a tattooed shaman progress his scavenger hunt. There's near no gain for players if it's done in public, and the illusion of a reward if done in private. As well bear in mind there have been characters that want to halt stone getting altogether, confident there is an alternative. To say that each dungeon is required to be a public event that must happen strongly upholds that any alternative to what has been planned not come to fruition.

 

[dUMMY]

There would be little motivation for characters below absolute selflessness to help a tattooed shaman progress his scavenger hunt. There's near no gain for players if it's done in public, and the illusion of a reward if done in private.

The characters that are going along with Clain want to get their Gods back, only kinda selfless. If any character went along with it expecting a personal reward or gain, I'd say that character may be kinda dumb, unless of course they are banking on gaining favor from their God.

As well bear in mind there have been characters that want to halt stone getting altogether, confident there is an alternative. To say that each dungeon is required to be a public event that must happen strongly upholds that any alternative to what has been planned not come to fruition.

it's not hard to say 'hey, clain, let's meet! we love god, god is great!'

and then crowbar his legs, mug him, and run off with his rock

This is always possible. But keep in mind, I highly, highly doubt that the possibility of a small group of people walking in and ruining everything for everyone with minimal effort would be allowed by the server. Let's be reasonable here. And as for IC reasons for that not happening: Clain has a brain, and obviously has some form of divine guidance. This is not to say that his plan to bring back the Gods can't be foiled. But I believe that the decision of whether or not the Gods come back will be left to the server as a whole, not just a few.

 

[Cap]

Why should characters even be involved in the campaign at all if, in the end, it's all one hundred percent Clain? I don't want to play an escort mission. I could go boot up GTA or COD if I wanted to. I don't want to be hand held through the campaign by Mommy and Daddy. If you tell me the campaign is player driven and I get to make decisions and go against the guidelines, then you bet your ass I will. It's not fun to have to do everything with Big Brother making all the real decisions and doing all the actual work.

 

[TheDeester]

This is always possible. But keep in mind, I highly, highly doubt that the possibility of a small group of people walking in and ruining everything for everyone with minimal effort would be allowed by the server. Let's be reasonable here. And as for IC reasons for that not happening: Clain has a brain, and obviously has some form of divine guidance. This is not to say that his plan to bring back the Gods can't be foiled. But I believe that the decision of whether or not the Gods come back will be left to the server as a whole, not just a few.

If it's a system where the lone players can make the decision to overthrow it all, and the only way to stop it from happening is the meta "it will ruin the public event for everyone", then there is a rudimentary flaw in the system. Player conscience is unpredictable.

 

[LiraKitty]

There would be little motivation for characters below absolute selflessness to help a tattooed shaman progress his scavenger hunt. There's near no gain for players if it's done in public, and the illusion of a reward if done in private. As well bear in mind there have been characters that want to halt stone getting altogether, confident there is an alternative. To say that each dungeon is required to be a public event that must happen strongly upholds that any alternative to what has been planned not come to fruition.

I'm with Dee on this one. Allowing players to hinder progress is just another way of furthering the player's rp immersion. I'd find it quite funny myself if rumor was to spread that someone nefarious has a stone and people have to scramble for some way to get them to hand it over. Many players would find it hard to find a reason for their character to selflessly sacrifice their time and resources for the gain of others or for the fates of the gods for that matter.

 

[dUMMY]

Why should characters even be involved in the campaign at all if, in the end, it's all one hundred percent Clain? I don't want to play an escort mission. I could go boot up GTA or COD if I wanted to. I don't want to be hand held through the campaign by Mommy and Daddy. If you tell me the campaign is player driven and I get to make decisions and go against the guidelines, then you bet your ass I will. It's not fun to have to do everything with Big Brother making all the real decisions and doing all the actual work.

Yeah, I know. I just explained how the server(the player base) can decide to go with Clain or against him OR without him.

If it's a system where the lone players can make the decision to overthrow it all, and the only way to stop it from happening is the meta "it will ruin the public event for everyone", then there is a rudimentary flaw in the system. Player conscience is unpredictable.

A rudimentary flaw that cannot be fixed. There has to be some kind of control to prevent chaos from breaking out as we all know it would. If the people making the event planned on letting it be a free for all, they probably wouldn't have put the fate of the Gods(AKA tons of server lore and history) in the balance. Because if absolutely everything were left up to the players, the server would have been set on fire a long, long time ago.