An Interesting Problem

[sneaky_ninja_66]

....I came back, was hoping to debate more on this and...well...
That escalated quickly...
Should I just never go to sleep when debating? I'm sort of lost in the off-topicness now...

If you missed Spark's gigantonormous post of all the ideas that were on topic, you should look back up a couple posts and read what you missed. Btw, thanks Spark for posting that.

Anyway, the major flaw I'm seeing in the most-agreed upon idea (the leaderboard system) is preventing players from lying to further their influence points. This also kinda ties in with my other question, who would be monitoring this... Are we just gonna have someone(s) watching these groups 24/7? Probably not; that's unrealistic for the players. However, perhaps there should be certain circumstances that the groups are able to earn points. Not just day-to-day RP encounters, but almost like a psuedo/mini-RP event. Maybe having them 2-3 times per week and a unique event for each type of group - enforcement, religious, etc. This way, there won't have to be a unique event for EACH official group, as that would most likely end up being waaaay to many to organize.

More food for thought \o/

 

[Seth_Jenkins]

I saw the post Ninja, I'm just still having troubles linking it all, especially with the GIFs :I

 

[sneaky_ninja_66]

There are no GIFs in the post, and the post quotes just about all the constructive ideas and debates within the thread... So there shouldn't be any trouble.

 

[Seth_Jenkins]

There are no GIFs in the post, and the post quotes just about all the constructive ideas and debates within the thread... So there shouldn't be any trouble.

All the linking posts arn't there though, so you don't see the linkings thoughts of people. And he missed my posts :I

 

[sneaky_ninja_66]

Well, from what I see, the posts you made just reinforce posts that were already there.

rerailing before this goes any further.

If possible, I'd be willing to help monitor the leaderboard. I just made a new character and haven't gotten deep into any RP. If we can just set up the points system, then I think this could really do some good for controlling power of organizations.

 

[Spark]

All the linking posts arn't there though, so you don't see the linkings thoughts of people. And he missed my posts :I

I omly put in the idea, most the other bits were people saying random things or agreeing/disagreeing but gave no points. And Seth I left out most of yours because either it was covered in another post or it was negative with no constructive feedback.


Screenshots could be made? If someone is in an RP that they think is point worthy they can screenshot it and PM it.

 

[pyrocide]

I don't think we necessarily need a point system. (I wrote something like this last night but fell asleep before posting apparently.) I think that so long as there was common knowledge of the region influences on each city, things could work out better.

For instance, I own and run Riddleport. Riddleport's highest power is the Barons, who control the main groups that are in Riddleport. Those controlled groups would come in second in terms of power, since they're backed by the Barons. The Pirates from the Cove are probably next, as Riddleport is a trade ally with the pirates and both are on good terms with each other, which means allowing the Pirates a certain level of power in the city, so long as they do not try to go against the Barons or their organizations. Everybody else logically doesn't hold much power in Riddleport, as it's a near-lawless safe haven for outlaws and other filth. (However, that is not to say the Inquisition couldn't come to Riddleport looking for a heretic, but they will find the city actively resisting them, unless they gain the favor of one of the Barons...)

So, in short, Most player run cities can already say who has what level of power in their city. The only time this gets muddled is with staff controlled cities like PS. But even here we could reasonably assume the local guard and any other groups dedicated to that particular city would have the highest power, though a case could be made that their power wanes in certain locations, such as the back alleys, or the end of the docks where patrols rarely walk to, ect.


This is an entirely different idea, so I'd rather not put too much thought into it now, but I think the point system would be something to incorporate should we hold an event where different groups could vie for power in a certain region. Such as - the Southern Wilds has a new gateway, and this gateway is controllable by players. You could then have the different groups perform different actions to determine who exerts the most power over it. An interesting concept, but like I said something for a different thread I think.

 

[sneaky_ninja_66]

Screenshots could be made? If someone is in an RP that they think is point worthy they can screenshot it and PM it.

Ah yeah, I didn't think of that. Much like how Sally had her RP drawings set up. Should there be a limit to how many screenshots each group can submit each day or something? Perhaps a max of 5, or maybe 10. I dunno, maybe there doesn't need to be a limit. After all, the more points a group gets the more "power and influence" the group should have in RP, so the more things the group can do in a day would go to show that they're active and really do have the backing of the power displayed on the leaderboard.

EDIT: guess pyro's not too keen on points. But I can see where a point system can have some problems in this situation. I.E., groups that SHOULD have more power but aren't as active online, and possibly ooc competition for points that could get out of hand... Though regional power can definitely be controlled and monitored with less effort than each individual group everywhere they go. A thanks goes to pyro now, as he just gave me an idea for regional power. If there's a way to create borders on one of the hollowworld maps, then that could give players a reference for who has what power where. ALMOST like actual nations instead of just city-states allied with each other. Of course, this probably wouldn't include some of the smaller organizations positioned in some cities. So, that still most likely leaves out a decent portion of current active groups. However, this can also tie in with what constitutes an actual, official organization. Creating a format to submit for screening on the forums can handle that.

 

[Jak]

A problem with location-based decisions of power is the Inquisition are just as powerful everywhere. Although, attacking them in the Church is -extremely- stupid.

 

[Faelin]

A problem with location-based decisions of power is the Inquisition are just as powerful everywhere. Although, attacking them in the Church is -extremely- stupid.

Attacking them at is pretty darned stupid to be honest.

 

[pyrocide]

A problem with location-based decisions of power is the Inquisition are just as powerful everywhere. Although, attacking them in the Church is -extremely- stupid.

Then you agree the Inquisition has more power in some places than others. We simply disagree on the levels. I keep to my stance, the Inquisition won't be able to muscle over the Barons at Riddleport, nor would they the Bandit lords at their lair, or the Queen of the Pirates at the Cove. It should be a common understanding that the rulers of a city are the highest power in that city unless under special circumstances, such as all out war or other massively-scaled invasion.

So yes, if the King decides that Riddleport is being too much of a nuisance, he could invade and bring in his entire military force, at which point I'd concede that the Barons are no longer the highest power. But as I said before, that's more of a special event rather than the norm, don't you think? However, in a normal day, if a few of the king's men come to Riddleport demanding one thing or another, they will have a hard time accomplishing their tasks unless they are on the good side of at least one of the Barons. It's simple political and martial strength really. In the same way one man cannot move a mountain on his own, One man cannot best an entire army, no matter how skilled.

sneaky, saw your edit, and I'm not not keen on points, it's just that in all things we should try and keep any proposed system as simple as possible. The simpler the system, the less rules to abide by, the less loopholes to be abused, and the easier for the playerbase as a whole to adopt. If we come out with massive charts and tables of what defines points and the ways the groups get them and lose them and so on and so forth... Most people will either simply tune out, while many others will nitpick the points. Keep it simple, and it gives people less to complain about .

and you are correct, some of the active but smaller groups will probably not have a share of "actual power," but in this realistic system some groups shouldn't have any actual power. All those secret organizations that we're not supposed to know about, for instance, can't have a way to show power and still be a secret. Some groups, like mercenaries, won't have any power of their own either, since their power is bought by other groups. This is really more for the groups that control a location, which is typically the guardsmen, or thugs in case of outlaw groups. Remember this process is to give groups with responsibility to keep the peace or protect their turf the ability to do so.

I also think your idea about mapping out altera and showing the borders of the different groups' power is a great idea.

 

[Spark]

I love the territory idea sooooo much. I'll try and think of some ideas for it when I get on a PC..

 

[Faelin]

I love the territory idea sooooo much. I'll try and think of some ideas for it when I get on a PC..

Remember this?

 

[sneaky_ninja_66]

I also think your idea about mapping out altera and showing the borders of the different groups' power is a great idea.

A couple notes on this; if the bandits need an actual location in the main map to call their own, Whiterose Vale would be the place. It's a northern fortress that is essentially a haven for mercenaries, thieves, and the like. There's a town thread for it buried somewhere in the Census.... [link to thread here] There have been recent changes to it since I returned, but the overall theme of it being an outlaw town remains.


I can also set up the borders of influence if the major/official groups would contact me and tell me what city(ies) they control.

 

[hshotwell]

Thanks for the note sneaky but as bandits our central location is the SW really. As for town in the NK, we lurk in lairs and towns scattered all over Altera.

 

[Spark]

Remember this?

OMG MS paint FTW

 

[sneaky_ninja_66]

Thanks for the note sneaky but as bandits our central location is the SW really. As for town in the NK, we lurk in lairs and towns scattered all over Altera.

I can appreciate your choice in this, but if your group solely stays in the SW and just continues lurking around in the NK, no one will truly take you seriously, since you have no where to really enforce your dogmas. I'm sure, even as bandits, you have some kind of "code" to go by, as would thieves and mercenaries. So if you change your mind, send me a PM and we'll see about workin' things out. But this is a topic for another time.

sneaky, saw your edit, and I'm not not keen on points, it's just that in all things we should try and keep any proposed system as simple as possible. The simpler the system, the less rules to abide by, the less loopholes to be abused, and the easier for the playerbase as a whole to adopt. If we come out with massive charts and tables of what defines points and the ways the groups get them and lose them and so on and so forth... Most people will either simply tune out, while many others will nitpick the points. Keep it simple, and it gives people less to complain about .

As for this, I think I have a solution/compromise for a simple points system, just to give some kind of value to the whole thing. Playing off the idea of regions of influence, perhaps the groups and organizations can vie for power/influence in other regions outside of their own, thus earning points. In order to determine if points should be given, the RP in question is screenshot'd and sent to whoever's maintaining and monitoring the influences and/or leaderboard. If the persons agree that points should be awarded, then +1 (or some value; the lower, the simpler, and the better) to the group who gained influence in an area. A group must gain 10 points in an area in order to gain influential control over it (or some value - just using that as an example). It'd add more purpose to organizations/guilds/what-have-you and more RP between them as well. Perhaps groups can lose points by situations that rile the citizens of the region - also screenshot'd.

Just an idea that I, personally, think might work well.

 

[hshotwell]

We are pretty well respected but thanks for your concern

 

[Rextoret]

ts system, just to give some kind of value to the whole thing. Playing off the idea of regions of influence, perhaps the groups and organizations can vie for power/influence in other regions outside of their own, thus earning points. In order to determine if points should be given, the RP in question is screenshot'd and sent to whoever's maintaining and monitoring the influences and/or leaderboard. If the persons agree that points should be awarded, then +1 (or some value; the lower, the simpler, and the better) to the group who gained influence in an area. A group must gain 10 points in an area in order to gain influential control over it (or some value - just using that as an example). It'd add more purpose to organizations/guilds/what-have-you and more RP between them as well. Perhaps groups can lose points by situations that rile the citizens of the region - also screenshot'd.

Perhaps once a group has reached a certain amount of 'reputation points' in a certain city, they'll be allowed to build a basic outpost in said city. This would allow them to become a tangible presence there. And then maybe at increasing intervals of points, they'd be allowed to either expand on their outpost or engage in a form of event that could net them a pretty amount of points assuming they succeed.

Thoughts?

 

[pyrocide]

Hmm... it's an interesting thought, but I think city owners are going to take issue with being forced to allow groups to build things on their land.