Too many heroes (and more)

[Spark]

Which is why we must say *slash* instead of doing it

which is why people powergame and the right never ends

 

[The Living Ghost]

which is why people powergame and the right never ends

Which is why you shouldn't be violent towards other people!
Ending off topic on a high note

 

[Spark]

Yeah ending on a high note.... *kills a kitten*

 

[The Living Ghost]

Yeah ending on a high note.... *kills a kitten*

...with love, and by kill you mean hug

 

[Spark]

*throws kitten into the fiery depths of Uliima* Yeah, with love...

 

[The Living Ghost]

*throws kitten into the fiery depths of Uliima* Yeah, with love...

*catches kitten* Enough with the off topic kitten hate!

...*drops kitten while no one is looking*

 

[pyrocide]

MRPolo13, I can certainly see where you are coming from. However, I'd like to point out just a couple of things.

your stance seems to rely heavily on the point that you believe freeform roleplay is inherently more enjoyable. While I do enjoy a good freeform roleplay forum now and again, I don't think that freeform is always the number one most enjoyable mode of situation resolution. In fact, in my time of using mechanics as seen in roleplaying games like DnD and LARP as well as freeform roleplaying, some of the most frustrating times I've had come from freeform. Once again, it sounds like this is a big problem that many players are facing here as well.

The problem comes from the fact that we are human. We want to win, it's in our nature. Sometimes you can get people to come to an enjoyable compromise, but usually fights end up in ooc arguing, or worse. We as people simply need a way to arbitrate outcomes before the situation occurs. That's where the game mechanics come in. It also legitimizes all claims or refutes them.

Finally, and I figure you've already noticed this, but your judgment of whether game mechanics or roleplay is a more fun experience is your preference. I'm sure just as many people would say the opposite is their preference.


Hilter, I agree. What actions can be taken in hollowworld that minecraft does not have a suitable mechanic for?

 

[Hilter]

Well, Pyrocide, there are mages who must use freeform rp unless they are content to reduce themselves to throwing potions, which none are. In addition there are people who claim to have some... unconventional abilities.

 

[pyrocide]

hmmm.... why, exactly, are mages opposed to using potions? They work really well as far as magical projectiles go, and it legitimizes their magic. It also brings magic decently on par with fighters, since potions can really pack a wallop but leave the thrower a bit more open if they let the fighter get in melee range... which is what a mage's weakness generally is. Maybe I'm missing something, but it feels like potions are a perfect fit.

as far as unconventional abilities go, I guess that's a case by case basis, but a good way to stop OP abilities is to tie them to the game. Teleportation? sure, if you have ender pearls. Radiate fire? Try a fire charge or flint and steel. That sort of thing.

 

[HappyShackles]

What happens if the Archmage fights a lowly mercenary, but the mercenary has better enchantments? If a champion of light trained from birth loses to a scum-born untrained pickpocket because of a lag spike? It works both ways. We can say it solves the problem of bad roleplayers trying to assert dominance by defeating them, but what if you lose to them? Or what if a good roleplayer plays a powerful character but is defeated by a significanrly less powerful character played by less experienced roleplayer, because they got a higher roll?

Free-form means people can be significantly more powerful and less powerful than eachother. More structured forms of roleplay means player characters are pretty much equal in overall skill, though in different ways in some cases. Mixing them on the server will result in a mixed perspective from different players, who favor one or the other. This results in conflict and disagreement on "how to roleplay" on the server. Not good.

And there will always be cases that can not be solved with game mechanics. What if my character is extremely agile? Do I train my finger muscles to hit the movement keys super quickly? No, that's silly. Other people run just as fast as I can in Minecraft mechanics (disregarding food), even if I am wearing only cloth and they are wearing a full suit of diamond armor.

Minecraft mechanics are not reliable for roleplay. We use minecraft so we have an open, customizable world to explore, live in and discover.

 

[Hilter]

What happens if the Archmage fights a lowly mercenary, but the mercenary has better enchantments? If a champion of light trained from birth loses to a scum-born untrained pickpocket because of a lag spike? It works both ways. We can say it solves the problem of bad roleplayers trying to assert dominance by defeating them, but what if you lose to them? Or what if a good roleplayer plays a powerful character but is defeated by a significantly less powerful character played by less experienced roleplayer, because they got a higher roll?

Then you lost to them. If you have been around on the server for a while you will have better stuff than the newbies and you won't lose very often, and if you do lose you deserve it. Its stupid to assign to experienced roleplayers an arbitrary shield of protection versus newbies. The only time you have problems of an experienced person losing to a neonate when they should not is when you have a text based rp and that neonate godmodes. That problem does not exist if you use minecraft pvp. Also note that I said mages might have a hard time using minecraft pvp because magic spells are not a part of minecraft. If you ask me, it should have stayed that way, exceptions permitted for non combat magic and things simulatable in minecraft, but that is an unpopular opinion and I am not arguing for that here. Mage combat, I will admit, is better in "Free-form"

Free-form means people can be significantly more powerful and less powerful than eachother. More structured forms of roleplay means player characters are pretty much equal in overall skill, though in different ways in some cases. Mixing them on the server will result in a mixed perspective from different players, who favor one or the other. This results in conflict and disagreement on "how to roleplay" on the server. Not good.

1: People are not equal in combat ability. People like Legion are very skillful, and will beat most other people given equal equipment, and others like Deadpress are noteworthy for the degree to which their equipment outclasses the average Alteran's. There is a hierarchy in this system, and it is a fair one, not based on who ascended their character the closest to godhood and who did so "legitimately."

2: You are saying disagreement on how to roleplay is bad. (Therefore I should yeild.)
NO U

And there will always be cases that can not be solved with game mechanics. What if my character is extremely agile? Do I train my finger muscles to hit the movement keys super quickly? No, that's silly. Other people run just as fast as I can in Minecraft mechanics (disregarding food), even if I am wearing only cloth and they are wearing a full suit of diamond armor.

Invest in swiftness potions.

Minecraft mechanics are not reliable for roleplay. We use minecraft so we have an open, customizable world to explore, live in and discover.

See above.

 

[Morpheus]

Listen, you guys can complain all you want, like I've said before in this thread that things are very unlikely to change just because you think that your way is better. This IS minecraft, the game mechanics must be taken into account.
The potions for spells idea kills roleplay , anyone can use pots while Rp-ing magic is a character thing and more creative in what can actually be done. I'm no fan of mages but they're an important roleplay aspect in any fantasy setting and you are practically replacing them with alchemists.

 

[Miner]

The counter-arguement on this thread is true, but not in the way that they say. If i get accepted into the whitelist, i am just a travelling trader. I dont walk around and sell stuff in real life so its true. But i dont see the point of being a hero unless others and being bad guys.

 

[Jak]

People will Godmode if they're new to RP (In most occasions).
We must teach them how to RP in a more fulfilling way.
We all enjoy playing with some roleplayers who we helped become better.
The End.

 

[pyrocide]

What happens if the Archmage fights a lowly mercenary, but the mercenary has better enchantments? If a champion of light trained from birth loses to a scum-born untrained pickpocket because of a lag spike?

I'll be honest, I really had hoped that this was not the underlying reason. You're essentially stating that a veteran of the server should never lose to a new player. That in itself is a form of godmoding. Anyone can get caught off guard, and the man with no name that wanders into town and upsets the status quo is a standard trope of good storytelling. Your statement feels as though I as a new player shouldn't even bother with freeform combat because I must lose since I am new. I'm sure you'll say otherwise, but that is the vibe your comment put off, and it feels as though many are in agreement for the same reason. I really hope that's not the case.

It sounds as though you simply have an issue with the game mechanics and you are trying to find a way around them.

In any case, I think the discussion is getting a bit far from the initial problem that I spoke on. Freeform does not give a well-defined and agreed upon way to resolve situations. The mechanics built into the game do.


Leo, I'm confused by your statement. You say that the mechanics must be taken into account, but then you say that mages shouldn't use the game mechanics. I agree magic has a place in medieval fantasy, but I disagree that potions reduce their role. Mages need something in game to validate their abilities. Potions have a variety of uses both offensive and defensive, and are nearly always associated with magic. If a plugin was implemented for mage characters to cast spells, then that would be fine, though from what I understand there used to be one and was taken down due to it being legitimately OP in terms of game mechanics. Potions work fine as a way to show magical attacks. Also, besides attacks and mechanical buffs, those spells could still be roleplayed, so long as the effect doesn't cross into what should be pvp territory, otherwise the "people claiming to be gods" issue resurfaces.

jakp25, it's quite alright to disagree with a position, and I understand why you believe your opinion to be correct. However, saying "The End." is condescending and uncalled for. We are all mature in our discussion and there is absolutely no need for that kind of "This is what I say, now begone peasants" attitude. Just because I am new to the server doesn't mean I don't deserve to share my thoughts and discuss the pros and cons of both positions.

 

[Hilter]

Pyro as I sortof said in my post, I agree with what Leo is saying about mages. Potions really do not simulate magic well enough to be seriously considered. The range of a potion throw is very short, so no long range magic. Further every effect is area of effect, no single target spells. A mage versus another mage makes it even more complicated, as they will probably have ways to counter the enemies attacks. This is all in the domain of free form rp until a plugin is added.

 

[Jak]

jakp25, it's quite alright to disagree with a position, and I understand why you believe your opinion to be correct. However, saying "The End." is condescending and uncalled for. We are all mature in our discussion and there is absolutely no need for that kind of "This is what I say, now begone peasants" attitude. Just because I am new to the server doesn't mean I don't deserve to share my thoughts and discuss the pros and cons of both positions.

I wasn't disagreeing with anyone, everyone is making valid points. I just find most of what is being said a little pointless; we have a system that works and that lets almost everybody enjoy roleplaying. All that needs changing is people's attitude towards having ninja-dragon-assasin-hobbits who can do anything. To fix this; we teach them effective Rp techniques ingame and on the forums. We could give them an example character with a balanced array of pro's and cons, and then show them a Gary Stu character, tell them that this is not the best for those around you, nor the most enjoyable way of roleplaying.

 

[Morpheus]

Yes, game mechanics do need to be taken into account. Because this is minecraft, people die and people kill each other based on their equipment, you can't walk into the Southern Wilds and claim no one can kill you due to your Rp character being incredibly nimble or better swordsman than them.
So I'm saying with Pvp, game mechanics need to be taken into account as Minecraft does give two cares about your Rp character.

And on to the topic of Mages, You're saying only mages can use potions?
Because the last time I checked, anyone can throw a potion but not everyone's Rp character can perform magic.
So does that mean under your system you are proposing that every bandit in the SW who uses pots in pvp is a mage or spellsword of sorts?
And theoretically everyone would technically be a mage, some would just choose not to use it.
As a player can decide whether to use potions or not.

So in a way, you're inadvertently attempting to force an Rp on the entire server by accidently attempting to turn every person who can use pots into a mage.
And you can't attempt to counter that with a "only some people who uses pots are mages" argument, because frankly that would be stupid.

I see too many holes in the make mages use potions tactic for it to work.

 

[Spark]

Dont fix what isnt broken.
The server has been going for over a year. The main wizards are gone, meaning a large decrease in magic because there are very few who can teach it. This good because it makes magic special and not over used.

If muggles were as rare as wizards and the same the other way, would the Harry Potter series be any good?

I dont think magic should be used in PvP whether it be physical or text based. Simply because whichever way you look at it, its OP.

Healing magic is fine as long as you've learnt it in RP. But its got to drain your energy to an unhealthy state.

Well thats my thoughts.
*prepares for the incoming rage*

 

[Valonyx]

Dont fix what isnt broken.
The server has been going for over a year. The main wizards are gone, meaning a large decrease in magic because there are very few who can teach it. This good because it makes magic special and not over used.

If muggles were as rare as wizards and the same the other way, would the Harry Potter series be any good?

I dont think magic should be used in PvP whether it be physical or text based. Simply because whichever way you look at it, its OP.

Healing magic is fine as long as you've learnt it in RP. But its got to drain your energy to an unhealthy state.

Well thats my thoughts.
*prepares for the incoming rage*

until... everyone else has super-enchanted magical protection armors such as magnus!
(joking)